Fine tuning advice?

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Shadow_storm56
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Fine tuning advice?

Postby Shadow_storm56 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:34 pm

My red farmall cub that sat for years is slowly getting more and more perfect. Engine being rebuilt years ago I have no idea the HP but I can fly up a steep hill in 3rd easy and our much more used 1971 yellow one cannot even come close to that. So it's like mystery HP and it runs at a consistent temp too, it's like my new child haha.

My last things to fix up are finding the right style light bulb for the from headlight.

Figuring out how to properly adjust the new carb, the top adjustment screw has a large range whare the engine runs good but for best function should it be as far in as it can go and still run smooth or as far out as it can go?

I have like the tinyest bit of steering play but perfect would be nice unless it's a nightmare to fix

I need one new brake shoe unless they can be fixed, still works but not great on one side.

My final drive gaskets sweat like a tiny tiny bit which may not even be worth my time to fix because it's so small.

I should drain and clean my cooling system although it function great I want to keep it that way.

Big big thing is my rear main is bad on both of my cubs... The yellow one was never rebuilt and has like a full turn of steering play.



Anyone else with a 1961 cub know how it acts in the sense of power? I can pop my clutch in third and it jumps, start it 3rd easily, goes up steep hills in 3rd without issue.

Here's what I'd add if I knew how and wanted to be crazy

1. Full set of gauges
2. Water pump and thermostat
3. Power steering
4. Air ride seat.

Not going to do any of these except maybe more gauges but hey you can get a cool image of it Haha.

This was a weird post, partly to say heres what I need to do and partly to get advice on it and talk about my little project I love so much :)

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Glen
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Re: Fine tuning advice?

Postby Glen » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:16 pm

Hi,
Below is a listing at TM Tractor for the style of sealed beam unit a late 1958 - mid 1964 Cub originally came with.
They are 6 volts, number 4511.
There is a pic of the light at the bottom of the listing.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/el/4511fp.htm

If the Cub has been changed to 12 volts, there are 12 volt sealed beams.
They are number 4411.
They were used on the Cubs after IH changed to 12 volts, in mid 1964.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/el/4411fp.htm

If you notice a difference in power between the 2 Cubs, check the timing with a timing light, if the timing is wrong, it can have less power.
It might need a full tune up too.

The adjustment screw on the top of the IH carburetor is for the slow idle mixture.
I have found that it usually needs to be open about 1 - 1 1/2 turn.
The engine has to be at slow idle speed to adjust it, about 500 RPM, and the engine warmed up.
The procedure is in the Cub operator's manual. :)
Last edited by Glen on Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

bofahs
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Re: Fine tuning advice?

Postby bofahs » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:44 pm

I'd want to see a compression check on the one that seems weaker. Then clean points, properly set, good coil (that's not breaking down when hot), timing.

Shadow_storm56
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Re: Fine tuning advice?

Postby Shadow_storm56 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:09 am

Cool thanks for the links :), the yellow one doesn't kick or back fire or do anything that would be a sign of weird timing besides power. I wouldn't be surprised if the carb was messed up or the compression was low.

From what I see the yellow one needs alot more work than the red one that sat for like 10 years... Big winter project haha unless the rings and cylinder walls are worn and then it's out of my area of what I can do.

Ohhh the yellow one looks like the spark plugs are probably originals too which may not help either....like rusted to the casing old.

Anyone here ever did a brake job on these cubs? Obviously a very important thing to tune up as well

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Glen
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Re: Fine tuning advice?

Postby Glen » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:19 am

Hi,
People on here have replaced brakes on Cubs. I have made posts about it, a search at the top of the page probably will show some info.
The brakes are in the upper part of the final drives, you have to remove the final drive to repair a brake.

Below is a post by Dale Finch about repairing a brake, it has pics. The Cub had the brake drum move, so the brake didn't work. Not all of them do that, the brake lining just wears out too.
There is basically an oil seal on each side of the brake drums, so there are 4 oil seals for the 2 brakes.
They commonly leak, and get oil on the brakes.
They should be replaced if they leak, or if you take a final drive off to replace a brake.
The Cub in the post has the 1st style of brake, IH changed the brakes in 1953.
The rod is separate on the 2nd style of brake, and they have different linkage.
Both styles of brakes are band brakes.

viewtopic.php?f=142&t=78436

Below is a pic from TM Tractor of the 2nd style of brake, without the brake drum, and other parts.
You can see the oil seal behind the brake drum, it isn't shown in Dale's post.
TM Tractor, at the bottom of the page, has new oil seals and brake bands with lining.
The oil seals are 2 different sizes. :)
Attachments
Cub brake.jpg

inairam
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Re: Fine tuning advice?

Postby inairam » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:33 am

It sounds to me you have plenty to power and torque. I do want to speak to future plans.

2) Water pump and thermostat - I have not seen nor read of anyone who did this. If you have overheating problems clean out the block and the bolster and the radiator. Make sure the fan shroud is in place. There are a lot of posts on overheating.

3) I have seen pictures of power steering usually on a cub with a loader. Another option is to use a post 1964 steering shaft and steering gear. In 1964 they went from 21 to 24 teeth to make it a little easier to steer. Unless you have a loader the effort of power steering my not we worth it and will clutter to the look of the cub. The shaft is about 2-3 inches longer but they can be cut down and rethreaded and keyed.

4) Air ride seat will also clutter the look of the cub. Do you have a "deluxe" seat or the pogo style seat? With the deluxe seat, you need to get cushions that have springs in them not just foam- steiner tractor has them. With the pogo style ( my personal favorite) remove it and disassemble it clean it and lube it and reassemble it. You will be very surprised by how nice the ride is. I was reading a book about the history of aviation. NASA asked IH to consult on it seat design for the early manned space missions. In the 50s and early 60s IH had done to most research on the human spine and how to make an operator comfortable for long periods of time.

Just my thoughts good luck with this project.
Last edited by inairam on Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Re: Fine tuning advice?

Postby Gary Dotson » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:53 am

Adding a water pump is certainly not practical, or needed. I've seen them with a thermostat, installed in the upper hose, but it's purpose in being there was to insure the engine would warm up adequately during cold weather operation.

Shadow_storm56
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Re: Fine tuning advice?

Postby Shadow_storm56 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:05 pm

Keep in mind these are not all things I'm going to do just ideas I had haha. Nothing overheats on the red just the yellow one although I still am not 100% sure the proper operating temp though... I get 230f under max load at the top outlet according to the laser thermometer I have. Yellow one peaks at 250f or more on the top outlet

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tnestell
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Re: Fine tuning advice?

Postby tnestell » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:20 pm

Shadow_storm56 wrote:Keep in mind these are not all things I'm going to do just ideas I had haha. Nothing overheats on the red just the yellow one although I still am not 100% sure the proper operating temp though... I get 230f under max load at the top outlet according to the laser thermometer I have. Yellow one peaks at 250f or more on the top outlet

Timing too far advanced can also cause overheating.

Shadow_storm56
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Re: Fine tuning advice?

Postby Shadow_storm56 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:26 pm

Right that could be a thing on the yellow one as well. Like I said idk the proper temps but the red one does not steam or anything. Yellow one does. Idk how to even use a timing light....

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Glen
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Re: Fine tuning advice?

Postby Glen » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:27 pm

Hi,
It is not hard to use a timing light, and set the engine timing.
Below is a listing for a new timing light, from online, it has a pic of one, you can look at the pic.
I don't have this brand, or know how good it is, it is to show what one looks like.
There are many different prices of timing lights, a lower priced one works for a Cub engine.
$20 - $30 is a lower priced one.

You point the front end of it at the timing marks, on the front crankshaft pulley, up near the marks, pull the trigger, and the light flashes, and shows where the timing is set.
The engine is running during the check.

The light has 3 connections.
2 connect to a battery, and the 1 with the rectangular end, to probably the number 1 spark plug wire. The end opens and goes over the wire. This tells the light when the number 1 cylinder is firing.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Ignition-T ... SwStheP3nm

They probably come with instructions, read the instructions before using it.

If the Cub is 6 volts, you can connect the light to a 12 volt battery. The light is probably dim, using 6 volts.
Check the timing somewhere not in bright sunlight, or check it in the evening, so you can see the marks better.

Below is a page from the Cub service manual, showing the timing marks.
It should be set so mark number 1 is aligned with the pointer, when the engine is running at slow idle speed, about 500 RPM.
Use only the pic and the description under it, they are talking about other things on the page.

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/gss- ... 001-43.jpg

If the timing is not right, the distributor has to be turned some to change it.
Loosen the 2 bolts with 1/2" heads that hold the round part of the distributor to the base, one bolt is behind the unit, on the engine side, it is sort of hard to get to.
Use a 1/2" open end, or box end wrench, and put it in from the bottom or top, whichever way it will go in. You can only turn the bolt a small part of a turn at a time.
Don't leave the distributor loose while the engine is running.
Tighten the bolts securely when the timing is set right.

The ignition points need to be good, they get old and burned from use. The point gap needs to be set right also.
If you change the ignition point gap, or put in new points, it can change the timing.
Check the timing after working on the points.
It's part of doing a good tune up.

NAPA is having a sale when I posted this, for the timing light below, I don't have one, but you can look at it if you want. :)

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7002 ... ming+light
Last edited by Glen on Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Fine tuning advice?

Postby Dale Finch » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:18 pm

It helps to touch a spot of white paint, chalk, etc, onto the tip of the engine cover pointer, and in the notch(s) to make them more visible.


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