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Checking out the Hydraulic Reservoir

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49Cub2017
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Checking out the Hydraulic Reservoir

Postby 49Cub2017 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:02 pm

I checked the fluid level in the hydraulic reservoir by removing the large square head filler plug on the upper left side of the reservoir. I expected to see fluid in there up close to the level of the fill opening and was shocked to not see anything at all. I noticed a small square head plug down low on the other side of the unit and removed that one to see what would come out. Well, not much...I got a slight trickle and then nothing! So, the unit is empty even though it was working last time I ran the engine. I have another post about a suspected blown head gasket, but now I'm wondering if it's more likely a seal failure in the hydraulics. What I drained out of the oil pan last week shows no sign of separating, which I would have thought would happen if what I had in there was water and antifreeze. What I drained out of the oil pan fills a 32 ounce mayonnaise jar and is a milkshake color and consistency. Isn't the touch control capacity about that amount?...like 2 1/2 pints or something like that? The oil dipstick shows full even after draining that mayonnaise jar quantity out, so is the math about right that this could be from the hydraulics and not the cooling system. I thought I'd test this by draining everything out of the oil pan and then adding 30 wt oil back to the hydraulic reservoir and see if some of that finds its way into the oil pan. What little bit that came out of that lower right hand side hydraulic plug was honey yellow and felt like oil. I have no idea what Hy Tran fluid looks like....could this be engine oil? I plan to get a jug of HY tran from my local IH dealer, but would it be a problem to just put some oil in there for the test? Seems like a waste to use HY Tran fluid for this. In fact, if the opinion of the forum is that this is probably oil, I may even stick with that since some of you recommend that instead of Hy Tran in order to prevent engine damage should the hydraulic seal fail. I'm trying to figure out what's going on and sure would like to avoid pulling the head if I don't need to! What do you guys think???

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Dale Finch
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Re: Checking out the Hydraulic Reservoir

Postby Dale Finch » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:22 pm

Someone else will chime in, but wanted to say that I would not use engine oil in the touch control block.
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Bob McCarty
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Re: Checking out the Hydraulic Reservoir

Postby Bob McCarty » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:47 pm

It sounds to me like the shaft seal on the pump needs to be replaced. That is a fairly easy and inexpensive fix. I'd do that before refilling the block. The thread in the how to forum has lost it's pictures, but maybe Stanton or Barnyard could check to see if those were saved.
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tst
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Re: Checking out the Hydraulic Reservoir

Postby tst » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:13 pm

you had that clean spark plug, antifreeze washes down a plug, not oil

49Cub2017
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Re: Checking out the Hydraulic Reservoir

Postby 49Cub2017 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:20 pm

Looks like I have symptoms of two issues...I guess that's not impossible.

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Glen
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Re: Checking out the Hydraulic Reservoir

Postby Glen » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:23 pm

Hi,
The Touch Control holds 3 1/2 pints of fluid, when drained, and refilled.

Below is a page from the 1950 Cub owner's manual telling how to change the fluid, and refill the system, and remove the air from the system. Be sure to do what it says in paragraph 4, to remove the air.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2062.jpg

Also, check the fluid only with the arms in the rear or down position, like the manual says. The fluid rises in the unit as the arms go to the rear, if you fill it with the arms ahead, you will overfill the system. :)

outdoors4evr
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Re: Checking out the Hydraulic Reservoir

Postby outdoors4evr » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:58 am

Use Hytran in the touch control. Motor oil is designed for... well motors. Hydraulic systems need hydraulic oil and Hytran is a high quality lubricant for a hydraulic application.
If you suspect oils moving from the touch control into the oilpan, change the o-ring in the hydraulic pump.
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49Cub2017
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Re: Checking out the Hydraulic Reservoir

Postby 49Cub2017 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:41 am

I agree about the Hytran. That's what belongs in there. What's involved with the 0-ring replacement? Does the block have to come off the tractor? Which part number is that on the parts diagram? I've been looking at that this morning and darned if I can figure out which one it is? The reason I suspect hydraulic in the oil is that oil and water don't mix or stay in solution indefinitely and the mix that I drained out of the oil pan is still in suspension a week later. Seems like if it was coolant it would have separated by now. Plus, the hydraulic reservoir is empty...if it hasn't gone into the oil, where did it go? Seems like maybe the first thing to do is replace that "o" ring before pulling the head.

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Slim140
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Re: Checking out the Hydraulic Reservoir

Postby Slim140 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:04 am

Have you pulled the radiator cap off and looked into the radiator with a flashlight? If the coolant is right above the fins of the radiator and just below the pipe you can see in there then your head gasket may be fine since you've found why your oil is high on the dipstick. The TC is empty if it didn't leak on the ground it had to go in your engine. You can buy a pump rebuild kit, you may as well put them all in it since you will have to take it apart anyway. TM Tractor has them for $28 and change http://www.tmtractor.com/new/hy/288fp.htm
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49Cub2017
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Re: Checking out the Hydraulic Reservoir

Postby 49Cub2017 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:49 am

Thanks for the parts reference, Shane. I think the "o" ring replacement makes sense. I was looking in the wrong place...I thought the pump was a component of the TC block :roll: ...I see now that it isn't, and I'm very happy about that! I'm still learning where everything is on the Cub! :) Cub tractors are amazingly complex machines for their size.

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Glen
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Re: Checking out the Hydraulic Reservoir

Postby Glen » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:19 pm

Hi,
The Touch Control pump makes the system work. It is mounted on the engine, at the front end of the 2 tubes that run between it and the Touch Control unit. It is turned by the engine timing gears.
You don't have to do anything to the Touch Control block to repair the pump.
To remove the pump, first remove the filler plug, to let any pressure out of the system, it can have a little pressure, even with the engine off.
Then drain the system of fluid, using the drain plug on the right side of the Touch Control block.
Then remove the tubes, there are 3 bolts at the block end, and 2 bolts hold them onto the pump.

The pump is held onto the engine with 2 of the 4 bolts that hold the halves of it together. Remove the upper left bolt, and the lower right bolt, they go all the way through the pump, and hold it to the engine.
Don't remove the other 2 bolts while the pump is on the engine, they hold the halves together.
The pump has to be carefully dissembled on a clean table, and the parts have to be put back in it exactly in the order they were.
Clean the outside of the pump before taking it apart, it helps keep dirt from getting inside it when you disassemble it. Keep dirt from getting in the 2 ports where the tubes connect on it.

Below is a page from a Cub owner's manual showing the parts of a Touch Control, it might not be easy to see.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-65.jpg

Below is the 1949 Cub owner's manual. The experts on here recommend that people read it, it has lots of info about operation, maintenance, and lubrication. There is Touch Control info in it, starting on page 60. There is a table of contents on page 1.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... index.html

Below is a pic of a pump, showing the drive gear. You have to remove the gear to get to the shaft o ring, and then take the halves of the pump apart.
There is a lock washer there under the nut, it is bent over one flat of the nut to keep the nut from falling off, carefully bend it away from the nut, so you can turn the nut. If it does not break you can use it again.
TM Tractor has new lock washers, but they cost some money.

Sometimes the place on the shaft where the o ring runs gets worn, then it needs smoothing, if it is too worn, it needs repair, or replacing.

If you don't want to do that much work to the pump, a Case IH dealer or other qualified shop can replace the o ring probably. You can take the pump off, and take it to them. :)
Attachments
Cub T C pump.jpg

49Cub2017
5+ Years
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Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:57 am
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Re: Checking out the Hydraulic Reservoir

Postby 49Cub2017 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:52 pm

Glen: Once again you've come through with a lot of very helpful info on the pump rebuild. Between your post and the others I was able to understand how the Touch Control system works and where all of it is! I don't know how I thought the thing was powered, but I guess I didn't worry about it! Yes, I agree, the manual was written for folks with better eyesight than I have. It's also nice to have a picture like the one you've attached...the exploded views just aren't the same. I also appreciate knowing which specific bolts to remove in what order so the pump doesn't come apart in my hand. Thank you! :hattip:


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