Bought a '47 Cub the other day.

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k hutchins
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Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
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Re: Bought a '47 Cub the other day.

Postby k hutchins » Tue May 22, 2018 7:53 pm

Everyone else has pointed you in the right directions so l'll just say Welcome.
I will also add that l love the hand lift over hydraulics, but it seems to be missing a few pieces to be able to operate. I future if you have the need l can supply pictures and maybe some basic demensions to get that part operational.
Why is there never enough time to do the job right, but always enough time to do it over. :?:

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Mike in Louisiana
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Re: Bought a '47 Cub the other day.

Postby Mike in Louisiana » Wed May 23, 2018 8:27 am

Welcome to the forum.
1975 cub (LouAnn) serial # 245946, 1941 John Deere Model H

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and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. Will Rogers

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Peter Person
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Re: Bought a '47 Cub the other day.

Postby Peter Person » Thu May 24, 2018 7:53 pm

Flemming,
Welcome to the forum.
I'm half Danish. My mothers parents emigrated to the US in the fall of 1929, actually docking at Ellis Island on October 29th, the day the stock market crashed.
Nice looking Cub!
Peter
1957 Farmall Cub "Emory", Fast-Hitch, L-F194 Plow & Colter, L-38 Disc Harrow, Cub-54A Blade, Cub-22 Sickle Bar Mower, IH 100 Blade

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Flemmingth
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Tractors Owned: 1949 Farmall Cub

Re: Bought a '47 Cub the other day.

Postby Flemmingth » Fri May 25, 2018 4:49 am

Indy4570 wrote:I think they are ALL pretty in any condition!! what size front tires are those? they have a nice beefy look to them.

Left is CEAT DR163 5.6 x 12 - Right is Primat RS 5.2 x 12 :shock: And both in a really bad condition.
Last edited by Flemmingth on Fri May 25, 2018 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Best regards
Flemming Thomsen
Location: Denmark

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Flemmingth
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Tractors Owned: 1949 Farmall Cub

Re: Bought a '47 Cub the other day.

Postby Flemmingth » Fri May 25, 2018 4:53 am

rockfarmer wrote:Welkom!

Nice looking Cub! How about the tail lights. Are they original?

Don't believe so - it's all plastic. They will go in the bin, when restoration starts.
Best regards
Flemming Thomsen
Location: Denmark

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Flemmingth
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Tractors Owned: 1949 Farmall Cub

Re: Bought a '47 Cub the other day.

Postby Flemmingth » Sat May 26, 2018 1:50 pm

Jim Becker wrote:I noticed that your engine block is part number 251 341 R2. A 1947 block would be 251 341 R1. The R2 block was used from 1948 to 1951, starting around serial number 50000 or so. Many of the larger castings have a date code that looks like (*5*21*Q*) to represent month, date, year the part was cast. The date code on your block can't be seen in the picture because the carburetor is blocking the view. All castings on a '47 Cub would have the letter Q. An R2 block should have letters R, S, T, or W. Your tractor serial plate and your engine did not leave the factory on the same tractor. This isn't surprising. Many things can happen to a tractor in 70 years. You might want to look at other large castings for date codes. You may be able to determine whether a newer engine was installed into a 1947 tractor or if a 1947 front bolster (with serial plate) was installed on a later tractor. There also should be an engine number stamped into the flat boss directly above your dip stick. You might want to clean that area off to see what the engine number is. On early tractors, they were fairly close to the serial numbers.

It is hard to tell from the picture, but it appears that your tractor has the second style clutch linkage/adjustment, which didn't start until serial 32229.


I have looked further into casting numbers.
Transmission between engine and gearbox: 351686-R1. Gearbox: 351630-R1. Transmission between gearbox and right rear wheel: 350798-R1. Bottom of front bolster: ???889-R1 (can’t see first 3 figures).. Front bolster: 350886-R2. Engine block no.: 69744 - date: 2-18-S
Front bolster cast R-2 and serial no. 6566 puzzled me, so I rechecked the identification plate. I have not forgotten a figure !
Well - maybe the tractor once has been damaged by frost due to lack of antifreeze, which have blown both front bolster and engine block. After replacing the blown parts, the identification plate was replaced to the new bolster. - Making sense ? ?

Concerning clutch linkage/adjustment i'm blank. I don't know the diff. between first, second and eventually other styles.

Thank you for making me wiser on these historical details. It will make the restoration even more fun and interesting.
Best regards
Flemming Thomsen
Location: Denmark

Bob McCarty
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Re: Bought a '47 Cub the other day.

Postby Bob McCarty » Sat May 26, 2018 2:08 pm

The early clutch adjustment was inside the torque tube and required splitting the tractor to adjust it. The later version has the adjustment on the pedal, so splitting is not required.
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein

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Glen
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Re: Bought a '47 Cub the other day.

Postby Glen » Sat May 26, 2018 6:00 pm

Hi,
There are casting codes cast into the bigger parts of a Cub, that you can look at and see the dates the parts were made.
Below is info from TM Tractor showing where they are, and how to read them. The last digit of them is a letter.
Clean the codes and use a good light to see them.

The clutch housing code is usually partly behind the clutch pedal.
The code on the last part on the page probably can't be seen with the tractor assembled. :)

http://www.tmtractor.com/id/castdate_loc.htm

Below shows how to read the codes.

http://www.tmtractor.com/id/id_004.htm

Below is a page from the 1947 Cub owner's manual showing the first style of clutch pedal free play adjustment.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-40.jpg

Below is a page from the 1955 Cub owner's manual showing the newer style adjustment.
IH changed them at tractor serial number 32229.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2056.jpg

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Flemmingth
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Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 5:15 am
Zip Code: Denmar
Tractors Owned: 1949 Farmall Cub

Re: Bought a '47 Cub the other day.

Postby Flemmingth » Sun May 27, 2018 12:54 am

Glen wrote:Hi,
There are casting codes cast into the bigger parts of a Cub, that you can look at and see the dates the parts were made.
Below is info from TM Tractor showing where they are, and how to read them. The last digit of them is a letter.
Clean the codes and use a good light to see them.

The clutch housing code is usually partly behind the clutch pedal.
The code on the last part on the page probably can't be seen with the tractor assembled. :)

http://www.tmtractor.com/id/castdate_loc.htm

Below shows how to read the codes.

http://www.tmtractor.com/id/id_004.htm

Below is a page from the 1947 Cub owner's manual showing the first style of clutch pedal free play adjustment.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-40.jpg

Below is a page from the 1955 Cub owner's manual showing the newer style adjustment.
IH changed them at tractor serial number 32229.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2056.jpg

Thank you all for your helpfulness.
IMG_20180527_073236.jpg

Second style clutch adjustment
Clutch housing cast no.: 351686-R1
Clutch housing cast date: 8-8-S (found it just behind ths clutch pedal arm).
Does that mean, that the clutch pedal has been changed out at a later time ?
Best regards
Flemming Thomsen
Location: Denmark

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Glen
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Re: Bought a '47 Cub the other day.

Postby Glen » Sun May 27, 2018 1:28 am

Hi,
The S code is 1949, the code you posted for the engine block was S also. They don't agree with the serial number on the plate. The 2 parts are not 1947 parts.
You could look at more codes on the tractor, shown in the TM Tractor info I posted above, and see what they are. Someone has changed parts in the past, evidently.
I don't know if your tractor is a 1949 with a different casting where the serial number plate is, or something else was done to it.

Serial number 32229 was during 1948 production, so the 1949 clutch housing would have originally come with the newer clutch pedal adjustment parts.

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Flemmingth
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Tractors Owned: 1949 Farmall Cub

Re: Bought a '47 Cub the other day.

Postby Flemmingth » Sun May 27, 2018 2:26 am

Glen wrote:Hi,
The S code is 1949, the code you posted for the engine block was S also. They don't agree with the serial number on the plate. The 2 parts are not 1947 parts.
You could look at more codes on the tractor, shown in the TM Tractor info I posted above, and see what they are. Someone has changed parts in the past, evidently.
I don't know if your tractor is a 1949 with a different casting where the serial number plate is, or something else was done to it.

Serial number 32229 was during 1948 production, so the 1949 clutch housing would have originally come with the newer clutch pedal adjustment parts.

Interesting !
I'm looking forward to autumn and winter, where I will take the tractor totally apart for restoration.
Maybe a story can be composed - or more likely it will just show up to be a mitch-match of parts. A lot of things could have happened to such a machine during 70 years.
Best regards
Flemming Thomsen
Location: Denmark

Jim Becker
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Re: Bought a '47 Cub the other day.

Postby Jim Becker » Sun May 27, 2018 11:07 am

Most of the numbers you found and posted are part numbers (the ones ending with R1, R2, etc.). They are not usually very helpful for determining dates as we don't know when most parts were updated during production.

You have some inconsistencies of dates in what you have reported.
1) Serial plate 6566 - October 1947.
2) Engine number 69744 - about April 1949. Implies tractor serial number should be around 69100.
4) Engine block - cast in February 1949.
5) Clutch adjustment - June 1948 or later.
6) Clutch housing - cast in August 1949, probably used in a tractor in August or September 1949
7) Instrument panel and fuel tank - early style used until about 75926, about June 1, 1949.

Taken together, the tractor seems to connect to 3 date ranges:
1) October 1947: agrees with serial plate and instrument panel.
2) April 1949: agrees with engine number, engine block date code, clutch adjustment, and instrument panel.
3) August/September 1949: agrees with clutch adjustment and clutch housing date code.

Any thoughts on how these parts came together would be speculation. It seems likely the serial number plate came along with the front bolster when it was replaced. There is a date code on the bolster, but typically can't be seen without taking the tractor apart. There are also date codes on the transmission housing and both final drive housings. They would give a clue whether they were originally with the engine or with the clutch housing. If anyone asks, you can call it a 1947 model or a 1949 model. Pick your favorite answer.

One more item. Your left front wheel is white. It seems unlikely that somebody decided to repaint one front wheel a different color! The factory didn't paint any front wheels white until late 1956. So it probably came from another different tractor (and may explain your mis-matched front tires).

Note that most of this is just an academic discussion that concerns history of the tractor. However, there can be practical considerations when buying parts. Most engine part changes were documented by engine number. Use it when buying engine parts, not the tractor serial number. Most other parts you might need should be based on a 1949 tractor. If your transmission and final drives have date codes of about February, use 69100. If they are about August, use somthing around 85000.

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Flemmingth
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Tractors Owned: 1949 Farmall Cub

Re: Bought a '47 Cub the other day.

Postby Flemmingth » Sun May 27, 2018 1:37 pm

Jim Becker wrote:Most of the numbers you found and posted are part numbers (the ones ending with R1, R2, etc.). They are not usually very helpful for determining dates as we don't know when most parts were updated during production.

You have some inconsistencies of dates in what you have reported.
1) Serial plate 6566 - October 1947.
2) Engine number 69744 - about April 1949. Implies tractor serial number should be around 69100.
4) Engine block - cast in February 1949.
5) Clutch adjustment - June 1948 or later.
6) Clutch housing - cast in August 1949, probably used in a tractor in August or September 1949
7) Instrument panel and fuel tank - early style used until about 75926, about June 1, 1949.

Taken together, the tractor seems to connect to 3 date ranges:
1) October 1947: agrees with serial plate and instrument panel.
2) April 1949: agrees with engine number, engine block date code, clutch adjustment, and instrument panel.
3) August/September 1949: agrees with clutch adjustment and clutch housing date code.

Any thoughts on how these parts came together would be speculation. It seems likely the serial number plate came along with the front bolster when it was replaced. There is a date code on the bolster, but typically can't be seen without taking the tractor apart. There are also date codes on the transmission housing and both final drive housings. They would give a clue whether they were originally with the engine or with the clutch housing. If anyone asks, you can call it a 1947 model or a 1949 model. Pick your favorite answer.

One more item. Your left front wheel is white. It seems unlikely that somebody decided to repaint one front wheel a different color! The factory didn't paint any front wheels white until late 1956. So it probably came from another different tractor (and may explain your mis-matched front tires).

Note that most of this is just an academic discussion that concerns history of the tractor. However, there can be practical considerations when buying parts. Most engine part changes were documented by engine number. Use it when buying engine parts, not the tractor serial number. Most other parts you might need should be based on a 1949 tractor. If your transmission and final drives have date codes of about February, use 69100. If they are about August, use somthing around 85000.

Yes - academic, but entertaining :-)
I have noticed that the front wheels are different. Center plate and rim are riveted together on the left wheel. The right wheel has no signs of jointing. Maybe electric chock (plus to rim, minus to centerplate and then short high current chock). I don't know your designation for this.
Best regards
Flemming Thomsen
Location: Denmark

Jim Becker
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Re: Bought a '47 Cub the other day.

Postby Jim Becker » Wed May 30, 2018 12:01 am

Flemmingth wrote:I have noticed that the front wheels are different. Center plate and rim are riveted together on the left wheel. The right wheel has no signs of jointing. Maybe electric chock (plus to rim, minus to centerplate and then short high current chock). I don't know your designation for this.

I think you are describing what we call "spot welding".

The front wheels are a standard agricultural equipment design. A lot of companies use essentially identical wheels. They get them from multiple suppliers. I looked at several tractors and all I found were welded. Your riveted wheel may have come from something other than a Cub. Most wheels have a manufacturer identifier stamped near the center, between two of the lug holes. I've seen:
EWC - Electric Wheel Company
K-H - Kelsey Hayes
IH - International Harvester

There may be others, maybe the tire companies. The most common on my tractors is EWC.

Gary Dotson
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Re: Bought a '47 Cub the other day.

Postby Gary Dotson » Wed May 30, 2018 6:36 am

I took a quick look at the front wheels on my Cubs, the 48 & 61 are both welded, the 57 is riveted. As Jim said, there were several suppliers and I think any Cub could have either type.


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