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Spits, Sputters, Dies Under Load

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Glen
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Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
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Re: Spits, Sputters, Dies Under Load

Postby Glen » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:18 pm

Hi,
Below is a page from the Cub owner's manual, showing how to adjust the valves, like was said before.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2055.jpg

The valve cover is sometimes hard to get off the engine, with the parts that are around it.

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AgTires4295
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Tractors Owned: 1940 Farmall A
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Re: Spits, Sputters, Dies Under Load

Postby AgTires4295 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:49 am

Thanks for all of the continuous info!

I deleted the fuel bowl screen to maximize fuel flow and it's suddenly even worse. As soon as I turn the PTO on and go full throttle to the tall grass, it immediately sputters out.

I don't get it. It's turned into a fuel-flow/timing/governor issue from electrical I guess.

I've altered the timing by ear (so it may not be perfect) constantly and it's the same thing. I feel like if it was governor-related, it would not have gotten worse when I varied the fuel flow (removed fuel bowl screen).

Now it appears the fuel needle/seat/float may be stuck since I park it and the carb dribbles gas.

I've been frustrated before but this is starting to get annoying. I love working on this thing ...to an extent. Between shift work, an upset wife and whiney kids, I'm about to park it until next year. I can't stand to look at it right now.
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1940 Farmall A
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1951 Farmall Cub

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punchofdeath
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Re: Spits, Sputters, Dies Under Load

Postby punchofdeath » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:36 pm

AgTires4295 wrote:I'll have to see how to adjust the valves (uncharted territory there) but I'm sure every little bit of fine-tuning helps with this little machine. As far as I know it's NEVER been done.

Great pointers


I never had done valves on anything before and I went and get a tappet feeler gauge from advanced auto for $6 I think and once you figure out how to hold the wrenches its pretty simple. I didn't do the top dead center thing I just observed when the valves opened and closed when turning the engine by the hand crank. Once I figured out what they looked like when they were fully opened and closed I went ahead and adjusted what I could then turned the engine some more until the other valves closed. Might not be the proper by the book method but it worked just fine for me. I've got pictures of my valve clearances before and after. The Cub manual tells you what you need to know as far as the clearances are for the valves. if I remember rightly when I set mine the book called for .013 with the engine cold.

Not sure if your valves are the problem but perhaps you could consider them as something to do one evening.

~CG
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Waif
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Re: Spits, Sputters, Dies Under Load

Postby Waif » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:20 pm

AgTires4295 wrote:Thanks for all of the continuous info!

I deleted the fuel bowl screen to maximize fuel flow and it's suddenly even worse. As soon as I turn the PTO on and go full throttle to the tall grass, it immediately sputters out.

I don't get it. It's turned into a fuel-flow/timing/governor issue from electrical I guess.

I've altered the timing by ear (so it may not be perfect) constantly and it's the same thing. I feel like if it was governor-related, it would not have gotten worse when I varied the fuel flow (removed fuel bowl screen).

Now it appears the fuel needle/seat/float may be stuck since I park it and the carb dribbles gas.

I've been frustrated before but this is starting to get annoying. I love working on this thing ...to an extent. Between shift work, an upset wife and whiney kids, I'm about to park it until next year. I can't stand to look at it right now.


Don't shoot it while I check your zip code....O.K., not funny.

Had one Cub run ,then sputter out under load after warmed up good. Fuel starvation came to mind ...but my nose said it was dying rich. Quite a contrast that had me scratching my head.
Restarted just fine. Run without load fine. Grab a bucket load of leaves and it would stutter- sputter and conk out shortly after moving a ways.
Playing with the choke did not help.

The other tractor when the coil was bad would just plain stop running. No warning. Same effect as killing it with the switch.

Pulled plugs in sputterbutt and one plug gap was closed tight. Couldn't get my thinnest gauge in it...
As with most plug issues I put new plugs in after gapping them to spec. ,and kept the old ones. (They don't take up much room.)

Shutting gas off on both tractors when parking them after use keeps fuel starvation behavior/sound and method of conking out in mind.
Each tractor is different though. The older one has a slight surge before dying. The other just quiets and slows a little before stopping.

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Re: Spits, Sputters, Dies Under Load

Postby mozer71 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:14 pm

.02 here. The carburator is picky about vacuum on each side of the throttle valve. The throttle shaft and bushings become worn over time but we don't know it because they have a layer of engine oil and grass packed around. Cleaning carb exposes this wear and here is a problem. The air plenum is supposed to be in time with the vacuum which pulls the fuel through the jets. Worn throttle shaft and bushings are like a short circuit. It is like a hole in your intake manifold.
Sure I was puzzled and in desperation to put some grease and 0-rings around shaft. It helped, so I made a more permanent repair.
Don't forget to replace that fine screen over your bowl. That is the protection of so many particles which can really screw the carb.

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AgTires4295
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Tractors Owned: 1940 Farmall A
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Re: Spits, Sputters, Dies Under Load

Postby AgTires4295 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:40 pm

Update: Spent the morning cleaning the block of dirt and grease. Adjusted the valves to spec (they were somewhat off) and that was much easier than I was expecting. Buttoned it back up and did a dry compression test.

Checked the spark plugs (all working). Sanded their contacts while at it.

Compression test:

Cylinder
1 -96 psi
2 -95 psi
3 -112 psi
4 -115 psi

I took apart, lubricated, and checked the governor arm for anything negative or restrictive. None. Spring looks good and functions as it should.

Put it all back together and fired it up (it immediately roared to life).

Drove it out of the barn and the same thing happened as usual within 1 minute of wide open throttle ...Spit, sputter, dead.

I'll be looking for that vacuum leak at the carb whenever I can get back at it.
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butchs38
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Re: Spits, Sputters, Dies Under Load

Postby butchs38 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:54 pm

If removing the fuel bowl screen made it worse there is also a screen in the tank I would check that also. It slides on top of sediment bowl inlet.
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staninlowerAL
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Re: Spits, Sputters, Dies Under Load

Postby staninlowerAL » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:03 pm

butchs38 wrote:If removing the fuel bowl screen made it worse there is also a screen in the tank I would check that also. It slides on top of sediment bowl inlet.

Must have been added somewhere in its previous life. Never seen one like that on OEM equipment.
Stan in LA (lower AL)
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butchs38
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Re: Spits, Sputters, Dies Under Load

Postby butchs38 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:20 pm

Thats possible my 50 has one it also has a screen on inlet of carb inside where fuel line screws on.

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AgTires4295
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Tractors Owned: 1940 Farmall A
1947 Farmall H
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1970 Simplicity Broadmoor 728 (x2)
1984 Cub Cadet 782
1964 Simplicity Landlord
2014 Simplicity Broadmoor 23/50
Location: La Plata, MD

Re: Spits, Sputters, Dies Under Load

Postby AgTires4295 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:44 pm

Yeah mine had that on it when I first brought the Cub back from the grave a few years back. Deleted it.

Just took off the carb, cleaned it entirely again for good measure and looked for any possibility of a vacuum leak anywhere. I paid close attention to the throttle attachment and noticed some play so I took out the butterfly valve, slid the assembly out and fit two plastic washers to tighten it up (thinking air has to be sneaking in through the slop).

Put it all back together and no luck. Same thing. I'm dead in the water and have no idea what to do unless I just dump dumb money at it and replace the carb, delete the fuel bowl, and whatever else comes to mind.

Any other ideas? I can't find a vacuum leak anywhere...
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1940 Farmall A
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butchs38
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Re: Spits, Sputters, Dies Under Load

Postby butchs38 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:45 pm

When it dies quickly take a look at the sentiment bowl and see how much gas is in it if its full I would look for a restriction in the fuel line a kink or dirt restricting flow. If the bowl is empty drain tank and take the strainer assembly off and check all ports for any restrictions also check shut off valve make sure its opening all the way. If the fuel line was replaced with a rubber one it could be soft inside and collapsing the ethanol in the gas will soften rubber thats not compatible with it.
Last edited by butchs38 on Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Glen
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Re: Spits, Sputters, Dies Under Load

Postby Glen » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:00 pm

Hi,
Too bad it is not working better.

Did you try a fuel flow test, remove the plug from the bottom of the carburetor, on an IH carb, and catch the gas in a clean can, then you can put it back in the gas tank later.
Let it run out for about 1 minute, it should flow steadily, and not stop.
At first lots will come out, that is gas that is in the carb. :)

If it does not flow well, there is a small screen in the carb inlet, that could need cleaning.
Below is a pic of it, from TM Tractor.

I have read on here of rust or dirt plugging inside a gas strainer, above the glass bowl. The man had to remove the strainer from the tank and remove the valve, and clean inside the casting.
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k hutchins
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Re: Spits, Sputters, Dies Under Load

Postby k hutchins » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:25 am

I had a problem with a restriction in the shut off valve/bowl area. When l removed the bowl and emptied/cleaned itthen turned my gas back on it only dripped into the bowl instead of flowing in. I was able to clear it by running a fine stiff wire down through the tank, then up through the bottom after removing the bowl. Then turning the gas on and off a couple times, seemed to flush out whatever was blocking it. With a clear inlet the bowl should fill fairly quickly. When you're sure you've got good flow there, then check your line, then check the carb. Follow the flow step by step, that way you can eliminate the problem.
Why is there never enough time to do the job right, but always enough time to do it over. :?:

staninlowerAL
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Re: Spits, Sputters, Dies Under Load

Postby staninlowerAL » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:11 am

The cleaning process that k hutchins describes is made more difficult because the fuel shutoff valve does not have a straight passage top to bottom. There's two right angle bends in the flow path. The valve handle can be removed to allow access to the horizontal portion of the passage.
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)

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Re: Spits, Sputters, Dies Under Load

Postby Waif » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:56 am

Fuel flow test sounds great. Only costs labor too....

Next time it dies ,check heat temp .
Don't get burned!
I favor the distributor area. It receives fan air enough to be constant/ consistently reflecting operating temp ,in my opinion anyways..
A large older electric motor runs around 111 degree's roughly. You can touch it ,but you don't want to lean on it. On my 48 that is about where the magneto temp runs when tractor is being worked good.
When it has died from various maladies it often has followed running hot. As in yikes ,don't touch the magneto for more than a second.
Not a cooling issue as much as it has been multiple other issues ,but if temperature swelling causes resistance somewhere ,heat increases it...


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