1955 Cub PTO Help

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mroberts
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Tractors Owned: 1955 Farmall Cub
1985 Massey Ferguson MF40B
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1955 Cub PTO Help

Postby mroberts » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:27 pm

Hi all,

I've been slowly repairing my grandfather's 1955 Farmall Cub. It seems possessed at times. I complete one part and then it slowly drags me into its depths, where I am sometimes reluctant to go. Well, I ended up there again today. The PTO hasn't work correctly for some time from what my father remembers. It would kick out during mowing. I believe a stretchy cord had been the solution to keep it from kicking out, but that was many years ago. After I finished the radiator and many other repairs, I realized the PTO was no longer engaging. I would hear some grinding though.

Today, I ended up pulling out the PTO shaft, and I found where the PTO lever pin was worn down almost completely. I'll add some pictures to give you an idea of the wear and in general where I am in the job. Hopefully, I haven't screwed anything up too bad. :)

From my vantage point it looks like I need a new lever and a new gasket for the rear cover plate. I'm thinking there may be a second gasket that I need to replace on the rear cover plate???

While I have all of this torn down are there any other parts that I should replace now? Also can anyone suggest a good vendor to purchase these parts?

I need to clean out the transmission. Can anyone suggest the best method and agent to do this? I welcome any suggestions that you may have. Thank you.



WornPinOnLever.JPG


PTOShaftRemoved.JPG


PTOShaftInside.JPG


PTOShaft.JPG


PTOShaftOutside.JPG

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Glen
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Re: 1955 Cub PTO Help

Postby Glen » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:11 pm

Hi,
You are right, the pin is wornout on the shifter shaft.

TM Tractor has good parts, the guys on here say. Below is a listing for a new one, it is a Case IH part, it says.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/pt/317fp.htm

Below is their PTO parts page. The 2 bottom rows of parts are for the Belt Pulley unit, you don't have it in the pics, ignore the parts for it.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/pt/pt_001newparts.htm

The rear cover has 1 gasket, and the PTO housing has a gasket. You can see them at TM Tractor's page above.

You could replace the PTO seal, at the rear of it, while it is out of the tractor.
You have to remove the pulley to do that. To remove the pulley, remove the 3 bolts, clean out the 2 holes that are not used near where the bolts are, they should have threads. Screw 2 of the bolts into the holes evenly, and it should push the pulley off the inner hub. Then pull the hub off the splines. Then the PTO shaft will come out, forward. Check the ball bearing for wear, and replace it if needed.

You should check the PTO pilot bushing in the end of the clutch shaft, they wear out, and guys have said on here that their PTOs didn't work right.
Sometimes there is little left of the old bushing, and it is hard to see it in the shaft hole. TM Tractor has the bushing also.

Apply grease to the front end of the PTO shaft, and in the PTO pilot bushing when you put the PTO in the tractor.

Below is the Cub service manual, the PTO is in section 6A, I would recommend reading it.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... index.html

Remove the transmission oil fill plug, and you can look in with a light when putting the PTO in the Cub, it is much easier to get the pin into the PTO clutch groove. It tells about that in the manual. :)
Last edited by Glen on Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Dale Finch
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Re: 1955 Cub PTO Help

Postby Dale Finch » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:16 pm

mroberts wrote:Hi all,

I've been slowly repairing my grandfather's 1955 Farmall Cub. It seems possessed at times. I complete one part and then it slowly drags me into its depths, where I am sometimes reluctant to go. Well, I ended up there again today. The PTO hasn't work correctly for some time from what my father remembers. It would kick out during mowing. I believe a stretchy cord had been the solution to keep it from kicking out, but that was many years ago. After I finished the radiator and many other repairs, I realized the PTO was no longer engaging. I would hear some grinding though.

Today, I ended up pulling out the PTO shaft, and I found where the PTO lever pin was worn down almost completely. I'll add some pictures to give you an idea of the wear and in general where I am in the job. Hopefully, I haven't screwed anything up too bad. :) A common situation that can be caused by several problems. Try doing a search for PTO Rebuild. You should go ahead and remove the pulley from the PTO shaft, since now is a good time to replace the PTO Shaft seal. To do that remove the 3 screws holding it on, then screw 2 of them into the other 2 holes, which are threaded. As you screw them in, they separate the two halves, the brushing from the pulley, allowing you to remove it. They are small screws, so use penetrating oil and take it easy with them, so you don't break them off.

From my vantage point it looks like I need a new lever and a new gasket for the rear cover plate. I'm thinking there may be a second gasket that I need to replace on the rear cover plate???

While I have all of this torn down are there any other parts that I should replace now? Also can anyone suggest a good vendor to purchase these parts? TM TRACTORS has all the parts you need.
http://www.tmtractor.com/new/pt/pt_001newparts.htm
There are 2 gaskets: the PTO Retainer gasket and PTO Adapter Gasket. They also have the PTO Seal,
but you can get that from your local NAPA store as well.


I need to clean out the transmission. Can anyone suggest the best method and agent to do this? I welcome any suggestions that you may have. Thank you.
Your housing actually looks pretty clean! You can flush it with kerosene, but unless there is more gunk than your photos show, I would just replace the shifter, gaskets, seal, check for a loose bearing and if OK just clean it, then repack it with grease, check the splines on the PTO shaft and clutch, check the PTO pilot bushing, make sure the clutch set screw is in far enough to keep it in the slot on the shaft, but allows it to slide freely, then reassemble everything, add the gear oil and go! There are posts about how to get the lever back into the groove, etc...do a search here. It really isn't too bad...good luck!


WornPinOnLever.JPG

PTOShaftRemoved.JPG

PTOShaftInside.JPG

PTOShaft.JPG

PTOShaftOutside.JPG

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Dale Finch
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Re: 1955 Cub PTO Help

Postby Dale Finch » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:22 pm

You're fast Glen! :lol:

Here is a post I made a while back...maybe it will help:
http://farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=100075&hilit=Pto+rebuild

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Glen
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Re: 1955 Cub PTO Help

Postby Glen » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:57 pm

Hi,
Looks like we posted at near the same time, Dale.

A brush and solvent, kerosene, is a good way to clean inside the transmission housing. :)

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Re: 1955 Cub PTO Help

Postby Bob McCarty » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:15 pm

If you can weld, you can remove the worn pin and insert a length of hardened steel (like the shank of a drill bit) then tack or silver solder to hold in place.
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Re: 1955 Cub PTO Help

Postby Eugene » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:32 pm

Install a new PTO shifter clutch.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Glen
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Re: 1955 Cub PTO Help

Postby Glen » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:14 pm

Hi,
Check the splines in the rear end of the clutch shaft, that drives the PTO, the splines have to be good so the PTO will stay engaged. You can probably see the splines through the trans oil filler hole, with a light.
Below are pics of the splines from TM Tractor, the 1st pic shows the PTO pilot bushing also.

The splines in the PTO clutch have to be good too. It's easy to replace it while you have it apart, like Eugene said above.
Below is the listing for it at TM Tractor, you can see pics of the splines there. :)

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/pt/449fp.htm
Attachments
Cub trans shaft 7.jpg
Cub trans shaft 7.jpg (11.37 KiB) Viewed 958 times
Cub shaft 3.jpg

mroberts
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Tractors Owned: 1955 Farmall Cub
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Location: Harpers Ferry, WV

Re: 1955 Cub PTO Help

Postby mroberts » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:07 pm

Sorry, I had hoped to get right on this, but some health issues and other unforseen events happened. I want to thank Glen, Dale Finch, Bob McCarty, and Eugene for responding with detailed instructions. I broke everything down except for removing the PTO shaft bearings and cleaned things up the best I could. I didn't locate the ring that holds it on the bearings, so I'm not sure how it's removed. As of right now I need to replace the two gaskets and the PTO shaft oil seal. I don't really have a lot of money to drop onto this project, so I would like to reuse as many parts as possible. Below is a picture of the break down:

IMG_2964.JPG


Here's a picture of both sides of PTO Shaft Bearing. Does this come off the shaft? Can I just clean the bearings and reuse?

IMG_2970.JPG


IMG_2969.JPG



Here are pictures of both ends of the PTO Shaft. Any thoughts?

IMG_2995.JPG


IMG_2996.JPG


IMG_2997.JPG



I'll follow this up with some other pictures.

mroberts
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Tractors Owned: 1955 Farmall Cub
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Location: Harpers Ferry, WV

Re: 1955 Cub PTO Help

Postby mroberts » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:36 pm

Here's a look at the end of the drive shaft from the rear and through the transmission fluid inlet. These aren't the best pictures.


IMG_2972.JPG



IMG_2971.JPG



Here's a picture of both sides of the PTO Shifter Clutch:

IMG_2991.JPG


IMG_2992.JPG



Here's picture of the PTO Pulley Mouning Hub:

IMG_2994.JPG


IMG_2965.JPG

mroberts
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Tractors Owned: 1955 Farmall Cub
1985 Massey Ferguson MF40B
Location: Harpers Ferry, WV

Re: 1955 Cub PTO Help

Postby mroberts » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:46 pm

Lastly, filed off the broken stub and drilled a 1/4" hole on the shift lever. I purchased a 1/4" bolt grade 8 and cut off the head. I was a litle surprised how easily I sawed through the grade 8 bolt from Tractor Supply. I'm going to attempt to weld it with my Harbor Freight $70 wire welder and did I mention I haven't welded much. Here's a picture of where I am right now.


55847979402__D17B9F99-B464-43E1-BA3F-0FB0D6BC8575.JPG



I'll add the weld job shortly. I'd appreciate any comments on my work. Thank you.

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Re: 1955 Cub PTO Help

Postby Shane N. » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:52 pm

That bearing on the shaft is "staked", if you notice there's a few indentions on the shaft next to the inner race, those are stakes. If the bearing feels good, sure you can just clean it and reuse it. Everything else is looking good!

You can always cut a piece of your bolt off and practice weld on another piece before doing it on your PTO lever, just to make you feel more comfortable. The key is getting your heat/wire feed right. More heat=better penetration, too much heat=melted bolt and lever :D
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Glen
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Re: 1955 Cub PTO Help

Postby Glen » Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:55 pm

Hi,
You can leave the PTO bearing on the shaft and clean it. They are usually tight, and need pressing on and off the shaft. Check it for looseness. I wouldn't remove it unless it is wornout and needs replacing.

Like Shane said above, the bearing is staked, if there is no snap ring. On the older shafts, they staked the bearing in place. Sometime on newer Cubs, they changed to a snap ring. I've never seen any record of when they changed.

Your pin on the shifter was worn down so much, you probably don't know the length to make the replacement one. Maybe someone with a new or good PTO shift lever, like he is replacing the pin on in his pic, can measure the length that the pin sticks out of the metal, and post it on here.

You could take the lever to a shop where they weld, if you don't want to do it yourself.

Below is a listing at TM Tractor showing the pin, but you should have a measurement for it.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/pt/317fp.htm

The PTO Pilot bushing looks sort of wornout in your pics. I would replace it. People on here have said their PTOs wouldn't work right when the bushing was wornout.

Below is a listing for it at TM Tractor you can look at.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/pt/752fp.htm

The splines on the clutch shaft, in your pic, look worn and rough some, at the rear end. I don't know if the PTO will work right or not.
The splines in the PTO clutch I can't see in the pic, the pic needs to be from the front side, at an angle, with light on the splines, to see them.

You didn't show any pic of the front of the PTO shaft, from the side. The metal should be smooth.

Put just the PTO shaft into the pilot bushing, and check it for wear, or looseness. It should be snug. If it is loose, the bushing needs replacing.

The PTO shaft splines, at the rear of the shaft, look ok, some wear maybe. The important thing is that whatever pulley is put on them will tighten, and not be loose on the splines.

Thanks for the pics. Glad you are making progress with it. :)

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Dale Finch
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Re: 1955 Cub PTO Help

Postby Dale Finch » Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:44 pm

As far as the bearing goes, if it rolls smoothly with no "bumps", it is probably OK.

Grab the bearing and try and move it for and aft...there should be no movement. The rear of the bearing should be hard against a shoulder on the shaft. The front of the bearing should be held by the staked "dimples" on the shaft. If it can move foreward, you can try restaking it, but be careful not to miss, hitting the bearing. I have been moderately successful using a punch and a fairly heavy hammer.

Clean the bearing well (kerosene, carb cleaner), then blow it dry, not allowing it to spin, since there is no oil on it yet. When ready to reassemble it, pack it well with grease, then put the grease shield back on and continue.

Make sure the grease fitting is good by pumping some grease through it before assembly. If it is bad, or allows grease to come back out (bad spring), you can replace it. I'm pretty sure all of them are pressed in, rather than the usual screw-in grease fittings. TM tractor sells them, but they are also available at a good hardware store.

When installing the clutch, the set screw goes in the groove/slot of one of the splines, and should be tight enough to keep the clutch from coming off the shaft, but loose enough to allow it to move the length of the groove/slot.

As said, it may take some good heat to get the pin welded on well. I had a friend repair a couple shifters for me, and one of them popped out almost right away after using it. Had to disassemble the PTO and decided to just buy a new one. But a good welder should be able to do it.

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Re: 1955 Cub PTO Help

Postby Mrblanche » Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:19 am

Bob McCarty wrote:If you can weld, you can remove the worn pin and insert a length of hardened steel (like the shank of a drill bit) then tack or silver solder to hold in place.


What is the diameter of the pin? I assume about 1/4". And the length?

And, should my pilot bushing be in need of replacement, how do you get the old one out?


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