Cub issues under load

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Eglicomet
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:11 pm
Zip Code: 11771
Tractors Owned: Farmall Cub
Gravely Model LI with a dog eater and snow blade
Location: Oyster Bay, NY

Cub issues under load

Postby Eglicomet » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:49 pm

Happy New Year!
I purchased a Cub with a Woods 59 both to mow my back yard and I'm having issues with engaging the PTO--the motor bogs down and dies. Same goes for putting the tractor into 3rd gear--the motor bogs down and dies.
The tractor sat unused for years but is in presentable condition. I changed the oil and filter, dropped the oil pan to clean out the bottom, took apart the distributor and replaced the points, condenser, plug wires and plugs, replaced the radiator (it was clogged with stop-leak and sediment from an apparent previous incident) and cleaned the trough out underneath the radiator (disgusting). I flushed it really good, too. Also, a new battery. The governor was stiff at first but now seems to work just fine. If I hold the gov. arm back (to speed it up) while in neutral I can get a few more rpms out of it but it will still stall if I try to engage the pto. I can spin the mower belt by hand so I don't think it is bound up. It would be nice to use 3rd gear, too...

The tractor starts really easily, sounds really nice and seems to run fine...until it's under load. I get the occasional puff of white smoke from the pipe and, as mentioned earlier, it just falls on its face.

Can anyone offer any insight as this is my first tractor.

Thank you,
eglicomet
Oyster Bay, NY

inairam
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Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1975 with homemade mower 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Cub issues under load

Postby inairam » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:58 pm

What year is it and is it a mag or distributor?
Did you time the cub with a timing light?
Did you adjust the governor to cab linkage per the manual?
Did you remove the governor when you worked to loosen it up?
Did you grease the mower and the PTO?
Did you sharpen the blades on the mower?
did you pop the clutch in 3rd or feather it out?

The 3 blade finish movers put a load on a cub in anything but the tamest lawns.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

Eglicomet
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:11 pm
Zip Code: 11771
Tractors Owned: Farmall Cub
Gravely Model LI with a dog eater and snow blade
Location: Oyster Bay, NY

Re: Cub issues under load

Postby Eglicomet » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:06 pm

inairam wrote:What year is it and is it a mag or distributor?
Did you time the cub with a timing light?
Did you adjust the governor to cab linkage per the manual?
Did you remove the governor when you worked to loosen it up?
Did you grease the mower and the PTO?
Did you sharpen the blades on the mower?
did you pop the clutch in 3rd or feather it out?

The 3 blade finish movers put a load on a cub in anything but the tamest lawns.


I'm not sure of the year (ID plate is a little mangled) but it is a distributor.
I static timed it. I'll check it with my timing light.
I just worked the levers back and forth until everything moved easily. I didn't remove the governor. I'll adjust them per the manual.
I did grease the mower deck and the PTO. It spins reasonably easy by hand.
I did not sharpen the blades--I'm just trying to get it to run in 3rd and engage the PTO. Won't need to mow until next spring.
I feathered the clutch.

I read on the forum to check the carb so I pulled it and found the main gasket was deformed and the tab broken off the float. I ordered both so I'll put everything back together and get back to you once I do the other things listed above.
I'll continue changing fluids in the transmission and axles while I wait for the parts to show up. Thank you for the response.

Question: how does the float height get adjusted on this IH carb?

Thanks again. I've wanted one of these for a long time and I'm real excited to teach my two kids (age 6 and 8) about maintaining and operating a Farmall.

inairam
501 Club
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Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1975 with homemade mower 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Cub issues under load

Postby inairam » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:15 pm

" get it to run in 3rd and engage the PTO." at the same time?

"Question: how does the float height get adjusted on this IH carb?"

yes in the manual
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

staninlowerAL
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Re: Cub issues under load

Postby staninlowerAL » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:16 pm

I would adjust the valves and do a compression test. Your description sounds like a tired engine and with low compression you will probably not be able to run the mower except in 1st gear. Take the belt off the pto and try to engage the drive. If it won't run the pto without any load you're probably looking at a rebuild but the compression test will help you decide that.

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Don McCombs
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Re: Cub issues under load

Postby Don McCombs » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:18 pm

Eglicomet wrote:Question: how does the float height get adjusted on this IH carb?

Image
Don McCombs
MD, Deep Creek Lake

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Glen
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Re: Cub issues under load

Postby Glen » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:55 pm

Hi,
Below is a page from the Cub service manual, showing the float level, and float drop for the IH carburetor, in the upper pics. It should be set to exactly the specs shown.
To set it, the top half has to be removed from the carb, and turned upside down, like the pic of the Zenith carb, on the lower right of the page.
Be sure to use the specs for the IH carb. Don posted them above also.

Turn the top half right side up to set the float drop.
You will need the new float first, the tab on it is for the float drop, it stops the float from dropping too far.
You need a measure with 32nds of an inch markings.

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/gss- ... 002-09.jpg

The IH carb float level is measured without the gasket between the halves in place.
People have posted on here that their carbs would not work right, until they set the float level exactly. :)

jsfarmall
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Tractors Owned: 1948 Cub "Trusty"
1948 Cub "Rusty"
1948 Cub "Bob"
1948 Cub "Sallie" (wife's tractor)
1965 IH Cub "Annie"
1943 Farmall H
1953 Farmall Super M (granddad's tractor)

Re: Cub issues under load

Postby jsfarmall » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:12 pm

When you say it bogs and dies, is it "smooth" till it dies or spit n sputters and coughs n hacks till it dies? Cause could just be starving for fuel. I have a 48 which is of the lowest hp cubs and with a woods 59 and won't pull it in 3rd. Don't like it in 2nd with semi tall grass. It has a somewhat fresh engine too. Mowing in 3rd will be extremely tough if not impossible with a very tired engine. See what it will do in 1st or 2nd.
1948 Cub "Trusty"
1948 Cub "Rusty" mower tractor, trimmed ear dash
1948 Cub "Bob"
1948 Cub "Sallie"
1965 IH Cub "Annie" mower tractor,
1943 Farmall H,
1953 Farmall Super M

Eglicomet
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:11 pm
Zip Code: 11771
Tractors Owned: Farmall Cub
Gravely Model LI with a dog eater and snow blade
Location: Oyster Bay, NY

Re: Cub issues under load

Postby Eglicomet » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:46 pm

staninlowerAL wrote:I would adjust the valves and do a compression test. Your description sounds like a tired engine and with low compression you will probably not be able to run the mower except in 1st gear. Take the belt off the pto and try to engage the drive. If it won't run the pto without any load you're probably looking at a rebuild but the compression test will help you decide that.


You may be right. Hopefully not...I'm going to see how far out the valves are tomorrow.
Thank you!
Alex

Eglicomet
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:11 pm
Zip Code: 11771
Tractors Owned: Farmall Cub
Gravely Model LI with a dog eater and snow blade
Location: Oyster Bay, NY

Re: Cub issues under load

Postby Eglicomet » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:48 pm

Glen wrote:Hi,
Below is a page from the Cub service manual, showing the float level, and float drop for the IH carburetor, in the upper pics. It should be set to exactly the specs shown.
To set it, the top half has to be removed from the carb, and turned upside down, like the pic of the Zenith carb, on the lower right of the page.
Be sure to use the specs for the IH carb. Don posted them above also.

Turn the top half right side up to set the float drop.
You will need the new float first, the tab on it is for the float drop, it stops the float from dropping too far.
You need a measure with 32nds of an inch markings.

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/gss- ... 002-09.jpg

The IH carb float level is measured without the gasket between the halves in place.
People have posted on here that their carbs would not work right, until they set the float level exactly. :)


A new float is on the way along with the rebuild kit for the IH carb. I really appreciate your advice. Thank you.

Eglicomet
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:11 pm
Zip Code: 11771
Tractors Owned: Farmall Cub
Gravely Model LI with a dog eater and snow blade
Location: Oyster Bay, NY

Re: Cub issues under load

Postby Eglicomet » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:52 pm

jsfarmall wrote:When you say it bogs and dies, is it "smooth" till it dies or spit n sputters and coughs n hacks till it dies? Cause could just be starving for fuel. I have a 48 which is of the lowest hp cubs and with a woods 59 and won't pull it in 3rd. Don't like it in 2nd with semi tall grass. It has a somewhat fresh engine too. Mowing in 3rd will be extremely tough if not impossible with a very tired engine. See what it will do in 1st or 2nd.


It won't pull 3rd (pto NOT engaged and on level pavement). Nor will it allow me to engage the pto from at all. It will cough a few puffs of white smoke and then just sort of slowly bogs down. If I pull the choke lever it's the same result.

1st and 2nd are fine driving around as long as I don't engage the pto.

Eglicomet
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:11 pm
Zip Code: 11771
Tractors Owned: Farmall Cub
Gravely Model LI with a dog eater and snow blade
Location: Oyster Bay, NY

Re: Cub issues under load

Postby Eglicomet » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:53 pm

Don McCombs wrote:
Eglicomet wrote:Question: how does the float height get adjusted on this IH carb?

Image


Thank you Don. This is most helpful.

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Dusty B
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Re: Cub issues under load

Postby Dusty B » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:44 pm

Should mow moderately high lawn in 2nd gear w/no problem if you are not just scalping it ! Mine has been mowing 12 + years, smokes a little (quite), uses water and still mows up a moderate grade w/o bogging down!!
Would tend to agree w/inairam on timing - not clear on PTO engaging problem - to me its either in or out! Is it possible that drive belt is threaded wrong?? That would sure be an anchor! Just MTC!! Dusty B
Grandpa's '41 B
'56,,'57,'59,'71 Cub
'51 Super C
'55 Case SC
Fairbanks-Morse 3KW Generator
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jsfarmall
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Zip Code: 72454
Tractors Owned: 1948 Cub "Trusty"
1948 Cub "Rusty"
1948 Cub "Bob"
1948 Cub "Sallie" (wife's tractor)
1965 IH Cub "Annie"
1943 Farmall H
1953 Farmall Super M (granddad's tractor)

Re: Cub issues under load

Postby jsfarmall » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:59 am

Do you have anywhere that you can drive your tractor up a grade? Your governor may not be working quite right. If your in 2nd gear idled down then firewall the throttle see what happens. Could be as simple as your governor spring could be shot or as bad as low compression. Which I have seen a tractor so low of compression it would barely pull itself in 1st but no smoke. Simplest always first which looks like what your doing.
1948 Cub "Trusty"
1948 Cub "Rusty" mower tractor, trimmed ear dash
1948 Cub "Bob"
1948 Cub "Sallie"
1965 IH Cub "Annie" mower tractor,
1943 Farmall H,
1953 Farmall Super M

inairam
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1975 with homemade mower 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Cub issues under load

Postby inairam » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:03 pm

It is always good to know the compression and consider a rebuild. I would not go there right away before you rebuild the carb, adjust the carb to governor linkage, adjust the values and run some seafoam in the gas and oil to loosen the rings. You did write that the cub was sitting for a time. Get is use to running again and then do a compression test

I also suggest again you consider the governor spring. If the governor is not responding quick enough to keep the engine from stalling with the PTO or 3rd gear I would charge that spring if for no other reason to take that off the table for troubleshooting. The governor usually does not ( not saying never) have internal issues. Most issues are the linkage and it's adjustment, spring, and the lever are being stuck.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!


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