Headlight wiring question

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Papa's Cub
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Headlight wiring question

Postby Papa's Cub » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:16 pm

I'm working on a 53 cub with original harness intact and I'd like to look at a picture that shows the headlight wiring route through the generator to the shroud and forward to the lights. I have found several sites showing the schematic but not the actual route. To me a picture is worth a thousand words, Thanks, :lost: Tom.
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Don McCombs
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Re: Headlight wiring question

Postby Don McCombs » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:34 pm

Check the electrical section of the appropriate parts catalog. It may show what you need.
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radioguy41
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Re: Headlight wiring question

Postby radioguy41 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:52 pm

Here's what the Lo-Boy looked like when I lifted the hood, if that helps. Click on an image for a larger view then click on it again to enlarge it.

1958 Farmall Loboy-072.jpg


1958 Farmall Loboy-074.jpg
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Bill V in Md
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Re: Headlight wiring question

Postby Bill V in Md » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:08 pm

Below photo taken from my 6v 48 Cub with generator and cutout. Will be a little different compared to your 53 cub, but should provide you some idea regarding orientation between wiring and fan shroud.
new cutout wiring 001_reduced.JPG
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inairam
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Re: Headlight wiring question

Postby inairam » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:22 pm

The 53 uses the teardrop lights. They are one wire and need ground through the mounting of the light to the post and the post to the hood.

If you painted everything you need to bare metal is areas to make sure you have continuity to ground or the lights will not work.

I started using a conductive grease on the light mounts to help with ground and to reduce rusting of the bared metal areas.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

Papa's Cub
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Tractors Owned: 1966 Int'l Cub w/mower 2005 Farm-Trac, 7ft Harrows, 1976 Int'l Cub Woods 59-C-2 Turn Plow w/Depth Full set of cultivators, Harrows and complete Planter & Fertilizer unit
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Re: Headlight wiring question

Postby Papa's Cub » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:18 pm

inairam wrote:The 53 uses the teardrop lights. They are one wire and need ground through the mounting of the light to the post and the post to the hood.


Thanks Men, like I said earlier, "a picture is worth a thousand words". I think I can put the wires back where they were originally now. I did discover the lights must have been changed sometime in the past because the front and back lights are identical and are flat on the back although they are connected with one wire and ground through the mount. Although I'm a little disappointed I continue to believe she's going to be a keeper. Thanks again, Tom.
If you always do what you've always done -- you'll always get what you've always got!

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Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1975 with homemade mower 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v
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Re: Headlight wiring question

Postby inairam » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:25 pm

The pancake lights are two wire. they were the mid-50s and sealed beam.

If you want to go back to the teardrop:

Repop the teardrop lights are available from TM Tractor. They are very nice.

They do pop up regularly on eBay plus a lot of members I am sure to have some. I have 2-3 sets I am redoing. I like the look of them the best of the 3 styles.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Bill V in Md
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Re: Headlight wiring question

Postby Bill V in Md » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:07 pm

TM Tractor also sells the cable clips that connect the headlight wires to the fan shroud. They have them listed in the cooling section for new parts.
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Re: Headlight wiring question

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:41 pm

The harness should pass by the left side of the generator. The headlight wires should then go about as shown in radioguy41's picture. The diagrams in the Parts Catalogs help show the placement. I don't know when the headlights changed to the pancake style. But my hunch is at or near the time the ground wire was added to the harness. Otherwise there was no place to connect the ground wires. That was at serial 165153, early 1953.

inairam
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Posts: 1141
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1975 with homemade mower 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Headlight wiring question

Postby inairam » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:19 am

Jim Becker wrote: But my hunch is at or near the time the ground wire was added to the harness. Otherwise, there was no place to connect the ground wires. That was at serial 165153, early 1953.



Jim

in the front of manual tc-37e, it shows the 11 bar grill for the sn for the 185001-up. I always assumed that was when the pancake lights were introduced.

In the electrical section, it lists the parts numbers for 2 different harnesses but it does not include serial numbers like it does for other changes.
Were did you find the reference to 165153 sn? I have a cub right near that sn (175 xxx) that had pancakes and a three bar grill ( which was much later) that I put teardrops and the mesh grill on.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Re: Headlight wiring question

Postby Jim Becker » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:14 pm

If you look in the front of TC-37E at the illustrations of the 501-185000 tractor, it also has the pancake lights (at least in my copy of revision 4, 5/63). The same catalog (again rev 4, 5/63) has an illustration of the system for 501 - 210000 (page 67). The first part number entries in the list are for complete accessories:
351301R94 for 501 - 165152
358214R94 for 165153 up

Subsequent individual parts are each marked for which of those two it was used with. When you get down to the harnesses, it lists the 7 cable without grounds as belonging to the former and the 8 cable with grounds as belonging to the latter. However, TC37D rev 1 only lists the 7 cable harness. So either the 8 cable harness was inadvertently left out or the listing in TC-37E has a somewhat misleading retrofit for the 8 cable harness and my conclusion that the ground was added at 16153 was wrong.

The pancake lights were authorized for use on 5/28/52. After that, they would have needed to go through procurement and delivery to each factory before they could start using them. TC-37C 8-29-52 only shows the teardrop lights, so it was after that date. TC-37D rev 1 12-54 shows the pancake lights, so it was before then. A copy of TC-37D unrevised 12-10-1953 would be helpful.

Papa's Cub
5+ Years
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Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:00 am
Zip Code: 31553
Tractors Owned: 1966 Int'l Cub w/mower 2005 Farm-Trac, 7ft Harrows, 1976 Int'l Cub Woods 59-C-2 Turn Plow w/Depth Full set of cultivators, Harrows and complete Planter & Fertilizer unit
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: S/E Georgia

Re: Headlight wiring question

Postby Papa's Cub » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:46 pm

Jim Becker wrote:The pancake lights were authorized for use on 5/28/52. After that, they would have needed to go through procurement and delivery to each factory before they could start using them. TC-37C 8-29-52 only shows the teardrop lights, so it was after that date. TC-37D rev 1 12-54 shows the pancake lights, so it was before then. A copy of TC-37D unrevised 12-10-1953 would be helpful.

So if I understand the above reference, My 53 ( serial # 166049 - Engine serial # 169079 ) may have come with the pancake lights. I'll try to take a picture of them later today and hopefully post them as one wire connection and grounding through the mount. Thanks for this information as I sure would like to believe this cub is all original, Tom.
If you always do what you've always done -- you'll always get what you've always got!

inairam
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Posts: 1141
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1975 with homemade mower 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Headlight wiring question

Postby inairam » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:07 pm

Jim

Thank you but this really messes me up on my 53. I put a lot of work into my teardrops. I going to stick with it for now. I really prefer the look over the pancakes. I need to start working on my pancake housings.

I do not have a hard copy of C or D parts manuals. I have an A, E (no revs), and F and usually do not check online since I have the 3 hard copies.
Last edited by inairam on Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

inairam
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 1141
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1975 with homemade mower 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Headlight wiring question

Postby inairam » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:07 pm

I just noticed one of the rotation pictures on the webiste has "Owner: 1953 Cub 'Molly' - Les Paquette" which shows the early hood and the pancake lights. I have seen the photo 1000s of times.

http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=79280
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

Papa's Cub
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:00 am
Zip Code: 31553
Tractors Owned: 1966 Int'l Cub w/mower 2005 Farm-Trac, 7ft Harrows, 1976 Int'l Cub Woods 59-C-2 Turn Plow w/Depth Full set of cultivators, Harrows and complete Planter & Fertilizer unit
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: S/E Georgia

Re: Headlight wiring question

Postby Papa's Cub » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:45 pm

20190111_084858.jpg
This is a picture of the rear light.
20190111_083957.jpg
This is a picture of a headlight.
20190115_150330_resized.jpg
I believe I have the headlight feed wires run correctly now. This harness only has the feedwire (no ground wire). To me the lights appear to be grounded through the mounting post.
Jim, If I understand your last post, with serial # 166049, it might be possible the pancake lights might be the original lights that came on this cub? Just curious, I appreciate your and inairam's comments, Tom.
If you always do what you've always done -- you'll always get what you've always got!


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