A Final Delima

Farmall Cub Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your Cub related issues.

Moderator: Team Cub

Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.
User avatar
rockfarmer
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
Posts: 474
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:35 pm
Zip Code: 78633
Tractors Owned: 1947 Circle Cub
1948 Cub
1949 Cub (Rocky)
1950 Cub
1962 Cub
Circle of Safety: Y

A Final Delima

Postby rockfarmer » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:24 am

Finally getting around to cleaning up and repairing my '48, which has been yard art for the past 2 years.
48 resting.jpg


At this point, the only obvious repair needed is the diff/tran housing where the left final attaches. Two of the four upper bolts are broken off inside the holes. A single tack weld and two angle iron stiffeners have been added.
48 left final welds.jpg


48 left final broken bolts.jpg


Fortunately I have a '48 donar,
48 project tractor.jpg

but all of the left side diff housing bolt holes have been oversized to 7/16"..... :(
48 project tranny case oversize threads.jpg


What will be the easiest repair, removing the broken bolts from original or repairing the oversized donar?

p.s. I bought the two tractors from the same person.

User avatar
Shane Nelson
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 3576
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:24 am
Zip Code: 27284
Tractors Owned: .
1947 Circle Cub #1447 (Arnold)
195? Cub
1970 International 140 (Norman)
1949 John Deere A
1972 Schramm Pneumatractor
1993 Ford 4630 W/Loader
1965 John Deere 110
1961 Cub Cadet Original
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Oak Ridge, N.C.

Re: A Final Delima

Postby Shane Nelson » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:35 am

If it were mine, I would put thread inserts in the 7/16" holes back to 3/8" but I do have access to 3 milling machines.
Every home is a school, what are you teaching?
Circle of Safety

Matt Kirsch
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4633
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:04 pm
Zip Code: 14559
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: A Final Delima

Postby Matt Kirsch » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:49 am

I would give removing the broken bolts a try, since you have to go past that point anyway. Once the final is off the tractor, everything is right there and you can spend a little time on those bolts before you give up and swap out the whole differential housing.

First thing I'd try is welding a nut on the exposed stud after the final is out of the way.

User avatar
Lt.Mike
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 1394
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:38 am
Zip Code: 07727
Tractors Owned: '58 International Cub Lo-Boy
2 - '46 International A's
Location: Farmingdale NJ

Re: A Final Delima

Postby Lt.Mike » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:19 pm

Matt Kirsch wrote:I would give removing the broken bolts a try, since you have to go past that point anyway. Once the final is off the tractor, everything is right there and you can spend a little time on those bolts before you give up and swap out the whole differential housing.

First thing I'd try is welding a nut on the exposed stud after the final is out of the way.

This exactly!
If you don’t own a small wire feed welder you’ve got an excuse to buy one now.;)
Watch this link.
https://youtu.be/nIJIVZpZZIw
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"

1958 International Cub Lo-Boy
1952 Farmall Cub (‘48 engine)
1946 International IA (Lil’Mule) “keeper”
1946 International IA “donor tractor for Lil’Mule”

jsfarmall
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 571
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:04 pm
Zip Code: 72454
Tractors Owned: 1948 Cub "Trusty"
1948 Cub "Rusty"
1948 Cub "Bob"
1948 Cub "Sallie" (wife's tractor)
1965 IH Cub "Annie"
1943 Farmall H
1953 Farmall Super M (granddad's tractor)

Re: A Final Delima

Postby jsfarmall » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:51 pm

I agree on trying to get the bolt out. Less work than doing everything required for a trans swap.
1948 Cub "Trusty"
1948 Cub "Rusty" mower tractor, trimmed ear dash
1948 Cub "Bob"
1948 Cub "Sallie"
1965 IH Cub "Annie" mower tractor,
1943 Farmall H,
1953 Farmall Super M

User avatar
Stanton
Team Cub
Team Cub
Posts: 5217
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:56 am
Zip Code: 64070
Tractors Owned: 1942 Farmall AV, serial #87025
1947 Farmall Circle Cub, serial #2116
1948 Farmall Cub, serial #46066
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Lone Jack, MO

Re: A Final Delima

Postby Stanton » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:48 am

If possible, try heating up the area around the broken bolt and apply penetrating oil or a combo of 50/50 acetone and auto tranny fluid. Do this for several days prior to attempting to remove bolt.
Stanton
Image Circle of Safety

Jim Becker
Team Cub
Team Cub
Posts: 13958
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:59 pm
Zip Code: 55319
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MN

Re: A Final Delima

Postby Jim Becker » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:47 pm

Is that a big weld above the broken bolts? If you do get them out, you will probably find more trouble with that housing, like warpage or alignment of the welded chunk. I would replace it.

The best option (in my opinion) for using your existing spare is to use inserts to get back to the original size. Although thread inserts are a good repair, your cost has an X6 multiplier. You may be able to find a good replacement housing for about the same cost of the repair. All else being the same, I would prefer a good original to a repaired housing. Note that there are early and late versions of the transmission housing. I believe you need to stay with the right version for all internal parts to swap.

User avatar
Shane Nelson
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 3576
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:24 am
Zip Code: 27284
Tractors Owned: .
1947 Circle Cub #1447 (Arnold)
195? Cub
1970 International 140 (Norman)
1949 John Deere A
1972 Schramm Pneumatractor
1993 Ford 4630 W/Loader
1965 John Deere 110
1961 Cub Cadet Original
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Oak Ridge, N.C.

Re: A Final Delima

Postby Shane Nelson » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:19 pm

For the record, here's the kind of thread inserts I'm talking about. Have installed many of them and have yet to have one fail.
https://www.mcmaster.com/92070a125

You don't have to have the installation tool, I use a bolt that's not fully threaded and screw them in, knock a tab down a little bit and take the bolt out then finish knocking the tabs in.
Every home is a school, what are you teaching?
Circle of Safety

User avatar
Glen
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 3024
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:33 pm
Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Wa.

Re: A Final Delima

Postby Glen » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:48 pm

Hi,
IH changed the rear bearing for the clutch shaft, in the transmission case, from a roller bearing, to a needle bearing, at serial number 180614, which was in 1954. The 2 bearings are different OD sizes.
So the housings are different in that way.

Below are listings at TM Tractor for the 2 bearings, you can look at the difference.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/tr/128fp.htm

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/tr/422fp.htm

They also changed the number of teeth on the 2nd speed gears at serial number 192113, which was in 1955. :)

User avatar
rockfarmer
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
Posts: 474
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:35 pm
Zip Code: 78633
Tractors Owned: 1947 Circle Cub
1948 Cub
1949 Cub (Rocky)
1950 Cub
1962 Cub
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: A Final Delima

Postby rockfarmer » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:28 am

I have not had time to remove the final yet, but a "careful" power washing revealed a lot.

I don't weld but it appears that an attempt was made to "glue" the final and differential housing together to accommodate for the 2 missing/broken bolts. Most of the weld bead has fallen off and is no longer holding the two parts together.
48 final weld.jpg


48 left final tack top view.jpg


The date code S and part # R3 indicate it was a replacement.
48 R3 final.jpg


I'm going to get the PB blaster working on those broken bolts first, and hope for the best.

As far as the inserts, will that require drilling the oversized threads to 1/2", and then installing?

Both the tractor and donor are 48 models.

User avatar
rockfarmer
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
Posts: 474
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:35 pm
Zip Code: 78633
Tractors Owned: 1947 Circle Cub
1948 Cub
1949 Cub (Rocky)
1950 Cub
1962 Cub
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: A Final Delima

Postby rockfarmer » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:26 am

Using a dremel with cut off wheel, wimpy but that's all I have for cutting, managed to break the weld between the angle iron supports and implement bolts allowing the final to be removed.
0120191501_resized[1612 left final repair5].jpg


Here is a pic of the two broken bolts,
48 left final.jpg


Any suggestions for removing these will be greatly appreciated.

Been soaking in PB going on 2 days now.

Jim Becker
Team Cub
Team Cub
Posts: 13958
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:59 pm
Zip Code: 55319
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MN

Re: A Final Delima

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:09 am

That isn't nearly as bad as I thought it looked in my first comment. Removing the broken bolts will probably take a combination of soaking, heating, cooling and left handed drill bits. If you have a welder, welding a nut on as already suggested is a good start.

User avatar
Dale Finch
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 3481
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:34 am
Zip Code: 27517
Tractors Owned: '55 Cub "Bertha"
'55 Cub "Ben"
'56 Cub "Boris"
'48 Super A "Bubba"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: NC, Chapel Hill

Re: A Final Delima

Postby Dale Finch » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:13 am

Be advised, from that last photo, it looks like that hole for the upper dowel pin is oblong, which would allow the bolts to "work" a bit, causing problems. You "welder" guys could probably weld the hole up, and drill it out to the proper size. Or drill it to a known size and insert a bushing to bring it to the correct dowel hole size.
Last edited by Dale Finch on Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Bob McCarty
Team Cub
Team Cub
Posts: 9174
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 8:02 pm
Zip Code: 80501
Tractors Owned: Cubs, MH Pony, Shaw, Allis G, 1934 Silver King, JD LA and LI, Gibson D, David Bradley Tri-Trac
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: CO, Longmont

Re: A Final Delima

Postby Bob McCarty » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:14 am

Tim, even a propane torch will help. If you have enough patience, you could use the dremel to cut a slot for a big screwdriver.
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein

toehead
Cub Star
Cub Star
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:56 am
Zip Code: 01756

Re: A Final Delima

Postby toehead » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:10 pm

If it was mine I would drill as large as possible down though the center of the stud (make sure you don't go all the way though by checking depth agains the non-broken ones). Then I would use my MIG welder to fill the center of the bolt with weld. As the weld cools, it shrinks and the bolt will shrink a bit.

I'd then get a junk socket and weld it to the end of the stud and try backing it out.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Farmall Cub”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Jeff Silvey and 6 guests