Final Drive - What to do next?

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WildFarmall
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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby WildFarmall » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:21 pm

I stopped by a machine/welding shop and they asked if the housing was cast iron or cast steel. I assume it is cast iron which would be harder to weld. Which is it?
The price was too high to fix the pin breakout so I am checking with another shop. Does anyone think that a good weld would work?

The shop also said that they could drill the hole deeper and fabricate another pin with a longer extended foot. What do you think of that idea?

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Shane N.
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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby Shane N. » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:25 pm

It is cast iron. I don't see why drilling it deeper and making a new pin wouldn't work.

You may be able to put that pin in it and have it brazed where the pin is fixed in that piece, just an idea.
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Shane N.
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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby Shane N. » Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:54 pm

This just hit me too, if you are taking the final off the other side and both brake pin holes are good you can switch sides. They interchange and you won't have to worry about fixing that hole now, that is if both are good on the other side.
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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby Glen » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:45 pm

Shane Nelson wrote:This just hit me too, if you are taking the final off the other side and both brake pin holes are good you can switch sides. They interchange and you won't have to worry about fixing that hole now, that is if both are good on the other side.


Hi,
The castings are the same, like Shane said above.
If you want the seed plate drive on the right final drive, you would need to change the lower axle shafts to the opposite castings from where they are. There are shims for the bearings on those shafts, they need setting like the service manual shows.
I don't know if you are replacing the oil seals by the wheel hub, if you are, the shafts have to be removed anyway. The service manual says to press the shafts out, then there is a bearing you have to pull off the shaft to remove the oil seal. It's not something every owner wants to do, a shop with a press is easier for the job.

You should also inspect the 5/8" implement attaching holes on each casting, and see if the holes and threads are good. 2 of the holes at the front now, on each side, would be at the rear, and used for the drawbar.
If the holes or threads are bad, then they need repair too.
Think of where any implements you use bolt on, and check those threads also. :)

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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby WildFarmall » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:25 pm

Hello all that have helped - thank you so much! This is all uncharted territory for me. I decided to take my final drive and have a welder repair the breakout. It is kind of a rough job but the pin depth is the same, the top surface is relatively flat, and nothing protrudes out like where the brake drum would spin and hit. Hope that it holds!
Another issue cropped up - as usual! I noticed that on the left side the brake pivot pin was seated as shown in the picture - with the fat spacer piece on the outside (away from the transmission). When I opened up the right side I noticed that the pin was the opposite - the fat spacer section was on the inside (closest to the transmission). I assume that one has to be wrong. I was told that the fat section should go toward the transmission. Is this correct?
Also, I purchased some denatured alcohol to clean the brake pads of oil. The pads look ok as far as wear. Will this work ok?
Attachments
Brake Pin Chipout.jpg

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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby Dale Finch » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:32 pm

Bob McCarty wrote:It's easy to change the seals now, I'd do it. The brake lining looks fine, but if that is grease/oil on it, you might want to burn that off with a torch before reinstalling.

:Dito: The easiest way I have seen to clean the soaked-in oil off/out of the brake lining is to set them on fire with a propane torch. You can watch the oil bubble out of the lining...works great!!

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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby Glen » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:50 pm

Hi,
The spacer on the pin has to be in towards the transmission, it looks like in the Cub parts manual.
It spaces the brake band to the proper place on the brake drum, side to side. You can assemble the bands on the final drives, and see how the spacing looks.

Below are pages from the Cub parts manual showing the brakes. The 1st style of brake is in the upper pics on the page. Part number 7 in the pic is not used if you have the pins with the built on spacers.

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 004-02.jpg

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 004-03.jpg

The alcohol should work for cleaning the brake lining.
The lining looked good in your pic, but I couldn't see the rivets. Be sure it is not worn down to the rivets. :)

WildFarmall
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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby WildFarmall » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:35 am

Thank you so much Glen & Dale. Your help is greatly appreciated. I am wading into this and often have a hard time visualizing what might be apparent to others. I think I will do everything but take the bearings off the axels as I am worried about getting them off and on again. This will mean that I will not be replacing the outside oil seals on the axels. So far everything mechanical has seemed easier than I was worrying about. I don't have a bearing separator and do not want to spend $100 or so for one as I already am way over my budget - passed that about a month ago! Can the bearing be removed without easily damaging it without the separator?

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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby rockfarmer » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:51 am

WildFarmall,

If you have a name brand auto parts store close by, they will rent you a bearing separator, for free. You give them a $50-75 deposit and they will give it back when you return the tool.

You can remove the bearing, install a new oil seal and replace bearing without damaging. Removing the oil seal from the retainer might be the most difficult part of this job. Buying a retainer with the seal already installed is way easier.

Replacing the bearing will require a pipe or something similar to get around the axle and a block of wood. Schedule 80 PVC might work. I have never removed a bearing without a separator, but I'm sure it can be done.

Keep up the good work!

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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby Dale Finch » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:03 am

:Dito: What rockfarmer said. I seriously think the splitter would be needed...I would check on "renting" one, or borrowing one from a friendly mechanic. It would be a shame to NOT replace that seal while you have it disassembled this far...it is a common leaker.

As he also mentioned, some of those seals are impossible to remove from the retainer, and you only manage bending the retainer. It is my recommendation to order the seal/retainer assembly that TM Tractors sells:
http://www.tmtractor.com/new/fr/393fp.htm

WildFarmall
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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby WildFarmall » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:55 am

Well I cannot go much deeper in this project! I bought an el cheapo bearing splitter from Harbor Freight for $50 and went after the axels on both sides. With a little advice from Ron with TM Tractors (which I highly recommend) I was able to get both axels out and bearings removed. The splitter was marginal but it worked with a good deal of effort. It appears that the bearings were original and had never been removed. In the process the two large bearings had the cages slightly disfigured when the splitter pinched around the backside of the bearings. Other than that the bearings look fine. There are no scars on any of the rollers and the races (where the bearings seat - not sure the proper term) are all clean and shiny. How do you tell if the bearings need replacement? Take a look at the phot and let me know what you think. I would assume that the slight disfigure in the cages would simply be corrected when the bearings seat in the races. Should I just replace all the bearings? Can these be acquired at local NAPA store? I would like to stop throwing more money at this.
A couple of shims came out broken. Any source for these?
I plan to use a 2" od pipe to "press" the bearings on. Any advise on this?
Attachments
Final Bearings.jpg

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Shane N.
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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby Shane N. » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:58 am

Put the bearings in the race and put some pressure on them with your hands and turn them, if they are free they can be reused, if they are rough feeling replace them. The cage can be tapped with a hammer and you can get them back straight-ish.
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Dale Finch
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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby Dale Finch » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:53 am

I MAY have a couple shims (and the beveled spacer), but not positive, and not sure of their thickness. I may not be out at the farm where they are until Monday, but if you can wait until then, I'll check...IF I can remember that far away!! :lol:

If you do decide to replace the bearings, I'm pretty sure NAPA has, or can get, them. There is a cross-reference table somewhere on the forum...if I find it I'll post it.
And TM Tractors has them:
http://www.tmtractor.com/new/fr/fi_001newparts.htm

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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby rockfarmer » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:01 am

Those bearings can be purchased thru a local auto parts store as well for around $20 - 25.

The retainer, http://www.tmtractor.com/new/fr/393fp.htm, that goes on the axle first, will most likely need to be purchased from a site sponsor. You will need 2 of them. I tried replacing the seal once, and never again.

Also, the right final has a seed drive on the inside of the axle that requires a seal and retainer. This retainer is easy to work with and the manual says to use 2 seals here as the original seal was twice the thickness. These seals can also be purchased at local auto parts store. http://www.tmtractor.com/new/fr/279fp.htm

You are doing a great job. Keep posting.

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Dale Finch
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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby Dale Finch » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:16 am

rockfarmer wrote: I tried replacing the seal once, and never again.

Me too!!! Ended up spending a lot of time and energy getting that seal out, and still had a bent retainer!
Get the seal/retainer from TM:
http://www.tmtractor.com/new/fr/393fp.htm
Hang in there! If you do it right now, it should last a couple more generations!


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