Final Drive - What to do next?

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WildFarmall
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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby WildFarmall » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:00 pm

Dale Finch wrote:I MAY have a couple shims (and the beveled spacer), but not positive, and not sure of their thickness. I may not be out at the farm where they are until Monday, but if you can wait until then, I'll check...IF I can remember that far away!! :lol:

If you do decide to replace the bearings, I'm pretty sure NAPA has, or can get, them. There is a cross-reference table somewhere on the forum...if I find it I'll post it.
And TM Tractors has them:
http://www.tmtractor.com/new/fr/fi_001newparts.htm


Dale - Thanks so much for the offer on the shims (if you find some). Ron at TM Tractor is looking around for them and I hope that he can find them for me. At least 2 of the shims are in pieces so I assume that I will at least need them when I put it back together. Maybe I could turn the nut that holds everything together a little to the next available slot for the cotter pin and reduce the need for a shim or two.
Now I am studying how to "preload" the bearings.
Thanks so much to everyone for the encouragement.









9 if

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Glen
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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby Glen » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:30 pm

Hi,
Below are pages from the Cub parts manual. I think the shims your are talking about are number 24 in the pic. There are 4 thicknesses, measure what is there with a micrometer, and see what thickness they are.
If you use the same bearings again, you can probably put the same number and thickness of shims in again, unless the bearings have worn some. Case IH might have new shims, I don't know. :)

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 007-12.jpg

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 007-13.jpg

If you use the same bearings, try to straighten the cages, that you said bent, between the rollers, before putting it together.

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Dale Finch
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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby Dale Finch » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:44 pm

I checked my parts list, and show I do have a spacer (the thick one with one side sort of beveled), as well as at least one shim, but I think 2. Let me know tomorrow if you still need them. I may get restless with all this rain, and go for a drive out to the farm. It's probably half underwater...it's right on the Haw River, which has reached the 100 year flood line at least 8 times in the last 5 years!! :lol:

WildFarmall
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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby WildFarmall » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:26 am

So after looking more carefully at the brake pin seat that I had welded (for $75) I am now leaning toward switching the Final Drive housings from one side to the other so I can use the undamaged brake pin housings. Thanks for everyone's advice on this in earlier posts. The reason I was leaning against that earlier was because I originally did not want to remove the axels bearings. Now that I have done that I looked more critically at the weld (see below) and think it is more likely to give me trouble later.
My question is: What should I be careful about. The castings look identical and were made within a few days of each other in March/April 1947. I can only assume they were machined well. I think that I should take the bearings that were with each bearing and keep them together. They look ok without pittings, scratches, and the races look good. The bearing cages are a little out of shape where the bearing separator squeezed them but only slightly and I think they will straighten out when seated. Is this a good idea to do this?
Another question: I have read the service manual several times about "preloading" the bearings. I assume that this is done mainly to make sure the main bearing is properly seated. Is this correct? I see how it is done in the picture with 10-20 lbs torque. I am assuming that after that I take it apart and put it back together and then treat it like other bearings where I tighten the nut until the wheel does not turn easily (or is t5his where the 10-20 lbs torque should be measured???) and then back it off until I can get the cotter pin in the nut. What am I missing?
Still waiting on TM Tractor to see if they have any shims. Thanks everyone.
Attachments
Welded pin seat.jpg

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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby WildFarmall » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:31 am

Dale Finch wrote:I checked my parts list, and show I do have a spacer (the thick one with one side sort of beveled), as well as at least one shim, but I think 2. Let me know tomorrow if you still need them. I may get restless with all this rain, and go for a drive out to the farm. It's probably half underwater...it's right on the Haw River, which has reached the 100 year flood line at least 8 times in the last 5 years!! :lol:

Thanks so much Dale! I have the beveled spacer but need a few shims. Still waiting to hear from TM Tractor. I will definitely come begging if I need the shims!
It is very wet here also. I live in Carteret County and we are still cleaning up after Florence. I still lave two stumps and one large tree that are too big for me to move and I have not been able to get a reasonable contractor to do the work.
Happiness to you!

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Dale Finch
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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby Dale Finch » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:05 pm

I was at the farm yesterday, and I have 2 shims...they appear to be the same thickness, however they are slightly out of round. Apparently, they had been previously damaged, but I think they are OK to use.

The only measurement tool I have is a Vernier caliper, which isn't real precise, and it read about 1/16". Let me know if you need them, but I leave Wed for 3 weeks, so... :)
20190224_210632 (Small).jpg

20190224_210722 (Small).jpg

20190224_210802 (Small).jpg

20190224_210731 (Small).jpg

WildFarmall
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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby WildFarmall » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:53 am

Dale Finch wrote:I was at the farm yesterday, and I have 2 shims...they appear to be the same thickness, however they are slightly out of round. Apparently, they had been previously damaged, but I think they are OK to use.

The only measurement tool I have is a Vernier caliper, which isn't real precise, and it read about 1/16". Let me know if you need them, but I leave Wed for 3 weeks, so... :)
20190224_210632 (Small).jpg
20190224_210722 (Small).jpg
20190224_210802 (Small).jpg
20190224_210731 (Small).jpg

Dale - Thanks so much, I will take them. Let me know how much. I think I sent a PM with my address.

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Dale Finch
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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby Dale Finch » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:46 am

You got 'em...free, no charge...just pay it forward! :D

I'll take a lunch break and pop 'em in the mail! :hattip:

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Dale Finch
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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby Dale Finch » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:39 pm

I need your mailing address, or you will need to wait until I return from my trip on Mar 22!

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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby WildFarmall » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:48 pm

Dale Finch wrote:I need your mailing address, or you will need to wait until I return from my trip on Mar 22!

Dale - you are so kind and I certainly will pay it forward!
My address:
Michael Murdoch
415 Wildwood Road
Newport, NC 28570

WildFarmall
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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby WildFarmall » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:51 am

Now I have my final drives back together and am wondering if I did it right. A few questions are:
1. I cleaned all the bearings with kerosene and then put them back in dry. I assumed that the 90 weight oil would mix in the bearings on their own. Hope that this is right.
2. I switched final drives from one side to the other to avoid using one of the brake pin holes. I put the same number of shims in on both sides as were in there originally, thanks to a gift of two from Dale Finch, and then tightened down the nuts on the insides until they were tight. I could turn the axels with my hands but there was no play in them and put the cotter pin in. I them secured the outside oil seals. I know it says 10-20 lbs torque.
3. I then filled the drives with the proper amount of oil.
4. I forgot to put grease on the axels when I inserted them into the transmission through the oil seals. Hope that this is not a problem.
5. I had a little trouble with the brake shoes but got the pins in properly when I connected the drives to the transmission. I used Indian Head Shellac on the joints there. Hope that this is not a problem.
6. Now everything seems stiff. The brakes are not connected yet to the pedals so it is holding the drums a little. I also need to put oil in the transmission. I can turn the axels with help but I was hoping for something easier.
I am hoping that when everything runs a bit and gets worked in it will loosen a bit.
What do you all think? I am probably obsessing here but I am slow and put a lot of effort in this and want to get it right before I put everything back together even if it means going back a step or two.

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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby rockfarmer » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:13 am

Beware; the following advice, if you can call it that, is based on limited experience so please keep that in mind. I'm sure someone(s) will either confirm or provide different suggestions soon.

1. I usually pack the bearings with grease, but the 90 wt should get in there pretty quickly.
2. If no need for a seed gear, no problem.
3. 1 quart per side is a less than the manual calls for but keeps the liquid below the pan gasket when not in use.
4. The grease simply lubricates the oil seal lip while installing the axle and helps prevent tears or nicks in the seal.
5-6. Did you install new brake bands? That will make it stiff. No lube in the bearings will make it stiff. Tightening the axle nut too much will also make it stiff. No need for gasket sealer but should not hurt anything.

Hook up and adjust, if needed, the brake pedals and move the tractor around if possible to get some lube in the bearings, might notice a difference.

Keep up the good work!

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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby Don McCombs » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:14 pm

3. The manual recommends 1.75 PINTS in each final drive. In order to preclude leakage, I fill the pan to one inch from the top and install. That way the seam and gasket are not continually bathed in oil. Still provides plenty of splash lubrication to the gears.
Don McCombs
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WildFarmall
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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby WildFarmall » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:03 pm

rockfarmer wrote:Beware; the following advice, if you can call it that, is based on limited experience so please keep that in mind. I'm sure someone(s) will either confirm or provide different suggestions soon.

1. I usually pack the bearings with grease, but the 90 wt should get in there pretty quickly.
2. If no need for a seed gear, no problem.
3. 1 quart per side is a less than the manual calls for but keeps the liquid below the pan gasket when not in use.
4. The grease simply lubricates the oil seal lip while installing the axle and helps prevent tears or nicks in the seal.
5-6. Did you install new brake bands? That will make it stiff. No lube in the bearings will make it stiff. Tightening the axle nut too much will also make it stiff. No need for gasket sealer but should not hurt anything.

Hook up and adjust, if needed, the brake pedals and move the tractor around if possible to get some lube in the bearings, might notice a difference.

Keep up the good work!

1. I should have packed the bearings but since I saw no mention of "packing bearings" in the IH Blue Ribbon Service Manual. It does say lubricate and maybe that is what they meant. In any case I simply cleaned the bearings and then put oil on the axels where the bearings ride and then put them on using a hammer and block of wood. I think that I seated the bearings properly. In any case I guess I should just let it go and hope the bearings get the 90 wt oil. Do you think the 90 wt oil is sufficient for the bearings? I have the Final Drives back on the tractor and I have turned each axel using a large screw driver and prying against the wheel stud bolts. It turns without any unevenness but I can hear the bearings. Can I assume that this might go away as the whole system works its way in? I would think it all would loosen up a bit as it ages a bit.
2. I have the seed gear axel on the right side with proper oil seal. So far no leaks but it is just sitting there and I have only spun the axels a few times.
3. I put in the proper amount of oil in each housing (until it ran out of the fill). Do you think this will lubricate the bearings sufficiently?
4. I don't think I damaged the oil seals putting the drives in but I installed them by getting them near to being in place and then hefted them in (by brute strength - my best tool!) as I do not have a hoist.
5. The brake bands are not new but have very little wear. I cleaned them with denatured alcohol and then adjusted the brake drums and locked them in and then put the bands on. Because I do not have my brake pedals back on yet the bands are touching the drums which is causing some friction, but not a lot.
I could loosen the inside final drive axel nut if needed. At least I think I can do it without getting back into taking off the drives.
My biggest worry is whether the bearings would get suffient oil the way that I have installed them. Hopefully that is the case.
Thank you so much as I have worried all along that I was over my head in doing this.

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Re: Final Drive - What to do next?

Postby WildFarmall » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:05 pm

Don McCombs wrote:3. The manual recommends 1.75 PINTS in each final drive. In order to preclude leakage, I fill the pan to one inch from the top and install. That way the seam and gasket are not continually bathed in oil. Still provides plenty of splash lubrication to the gears.

Thanks so much Don! Please look at my response to RockFarmer. Your advice was and is greatly appreciated.


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