Just picked up a 1974

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Glen
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 5063
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:33 pm
Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Wa.

Re: Just picked up a 1974

Postby Glen » Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:10 pm

Hi,
I would buy a new oil filter cover gasket, if it needs a new gasket, and remove the cover.
Then you can see if the oil filter is good too, if you haven't seen it before.
I think one of the experts said the paper gasket works better.

They have said on here that the little plugs at the ends of oil passages are usually very tight.

One plug is by the oil filter cover, on the surface of the block the cover is on, forward slightly of the cover, in by the head.
You might need a light to see it.
Clean the area so dirt doesn't fall into the oil passage when the plug is out.
Dig all dirt out of the allen head plug, so the wrench will go fully into it. :)

Crimson Tim
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:09 pm
Zip Code: 32736
Tractors Owned: The crew:
"John", 1952 Cub
"Paul", 1951 Cub
"George", 1958 LoBoy Cub with Wagner 45 Loader
"Ringo", 1977 Cub

So far, Paul and Ringo have arrived. John and George were supposed to follow ages ago, but apparently have gone awol. Long story.
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Just picked up a 1974

Postby Crimson Tim » Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:42 pm

I got the coil switched over to the new one. I didn’t change the points, but I did reset the points that were on it. They were set at about 1/8”. I changed them to 0.020”. They were so far out, I hoped that was my issue. Tried to start. No dice. Still no spark coming off the coil. No attempt to fire. I will replace the condenser and might as well replace the points, too, and see where that gets me. I just ran out of daylight today.

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Glen
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 5063
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:33 pm
Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Wa.

Re: Just picked up a 1974

Postby Glen » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:30 pm

Hi,
If the Cub has been sitting, the ignition points may be corroded enough that power won't go through them. They can corrode when sitting, and not used.
If they aren't burned lots, I remove them and file them with a flat file.
Set each point on a solid surface to file it. Wipe off all filings with a clean rag.
Or you can replace the points with new ones. :)

Crimson Tim
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:09 pm
Zip Code: 32736
Tractors Owned: The crew:
"John", 1952 Cub
"Paul", 1951 Cub
"George", 1958 LoBoy Cub with Wagner 45 Loader
"Ringo", 1977 Cub

So far, Paul and Ringo have arrived. John and George were supposed to follow ages ago, but apparently have gone awol. Long story.
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Just picked up a 1974

Postby Crimson Tim » Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:50 am

It has definitely been sitting. At least 3 years. Probably more. Previous owner had been working on it but ran out of time or money or health resources to continue work. For what it’s worth, the battery has a 2018 sticker. No idea when it last ran, but that’s probably the last time it was worked on.
The wiring harness looks brand spanking new but has nevertheless been modified. The ammeter is completely bypassed for one thing.

Crimson Tim
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:09 pm
Zip Code: 32736
Tractors Owned: The crew:
"John", 1952 Cub
"Paul", 1951 Cub
"George", 1958 LoBoy Cub with Wagner 45 Loader
"Ringo", 1977 Cub

So far, Paul and Ringo have arrived. John and George were supposed to follow ages ago, but apparently have gone awol. Long story.
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Just picked up a 1974

Postby Crimson Tim » Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:20 pm

Well, a tiny bit of progress. I swapped in the rest of the ignition kit: points and condenser and rotor after giving all the contact points a brief touch with a file. Then it started raining again. However, when trying to start, it did actually fire once or twice, which is more than we’ve achieved before.

However, the moisture falling from the sky indicated another issue. There were some bubbles appearing around especially the #4 spark plug, but also a few around the #3 plug.

F69FD620-0926-4DF1-8170-4A5E56054801.jpeg


Looking closely at the plug, it almost looks like the plug is screwed into a spacer, which is screwed into the head??? The only threads visible are not right at the head, but between the cylindrical “spacer” and the hex surfaces of the plug. Where the arrow points. Bubbles were appearing right at the surface of the head. This has Autolite 386 plugs in it, as does my running Cub, so I compared the two. The running Cub still has its hood on and the plugs are all dark and rusty and hidden away in the shadows, but the plugs and “spacer” situation *appear* to be the same, so I think I just don’t know what I’m looking at. It will all become clear how it goes together once I get it apart.
Unfortunately, I’ll have to make a run for a plug socket of the correct size, because what I currently have doesn’t fit. Hopefully, the plugs are just loose, and I’m not looking at a (multipli-) cracked head. I couldn’t budge them with a crescent wrench, but then I couldn’t get good contact, either. Not without rounding corners over.
Oh well, I needed to double check the plug gaps anyway….


Edit: ok, I see that the “spacer” is part of the plug.

90AC34A9-1596-48B9-B6D4-66DF3EDC1A08.jpeg
90AC34A9-1596-48B9-B6D4-66DF3EDC1A08.jpeg (7.09 KiB) Viewed 212 times


I swear I saw threads between the cylindrical part and the hex part, but oh well.
Looks like I will need a 7/8 socket for these…

Jim Becker
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Re: Just picked up a 1974

Postby Jim Becker » Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:55 pm

For Cub spark plugs, I normally use the box end of a combination wrench.

Crimson Tim
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:09 pm
Zip Code: 32736
Tractors Owned: The crew:
"John", 1952 Cub
"Paul", 1951 Cub
"George", 1958 LoBoy Cub with Wagner 45 Loader
"Ringo", 1977 Cub

So far, Paul and Ringo have arrived. John and George were supposed to follow ages ago, but apparently have gone awol. Long story.
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Just picked up a 1974

Postby Crimson Tim » Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:29 pm

I thought about that, but my box end wrench set doesn’t quite go that big…. But for some reason reading your note reminded me I have a big set of ratcheting box ends that go up to 1 1/2” for keel bolts. Surely, there would be a 7/8” wrench in that set. I don’t have occasion to use them much, so forgot about them, but yes, they should do just fine! Thanks for reminding me.

When I reinstall the plugs, what torque value am I shooting for?

Edit: that works. Because these ratchet, they are not as low profile as standard box end wrenches, but I could still get enough solid contact to break loose #4. And then tighten it again, because it is still drizzling and I don’t want water getting in there. I’ll see what I can sort out in the daylight tomorrow.
Sometimes it really stinks not having a garage or workshop in which to work under cover….
Last edited by Crimson Tim on Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jim Becker
Team Cub
Team Cub
Posts: 15915
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:59 pm
Zip Code: 55319
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MN

Re: Just picked up a 1974

Postby Jim Becker » Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:57 pm

I've never used a torque wrench on a tractor spark plug. Maybe someone else has a number.

Crimson Tim
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:09 pm
Zip Code: 32736
Tractors Owned: The crew:
"John", 1952 Cub
"Paul", 1951 Cub
"George", 1958 LoBoy Cub with Wagner 45 Loader
"Ringo", 1977 Cub

So far, Paul and Ringo have arrived. John and George were supposed to follow ages ago, but apparently have gone awol. Long story.
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Just picked up a 1974

Postby Crimson Tim » Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:03 pm

Ok. So I’ll just say snugger than I found them, then.

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Dale Finch
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Tractors Owned: '51 Cub "Bernie" with Fast Hitch
'55 Cub "Bruno" with Woods 59 mower
'55 Cub "Bertha" with Woods 42 mower
'55 Cub "Ben" with Woods 42 mower
'56 Cub "Boris" with Mott Flail mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: NC, Chapel Hill

Re: Just picked up a 1974

Postby Dale Finch » Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:43 am

It might be time to replace your plugs. Those crush washers get flattened out after being installed/removed over the years. Also, the seat where they contact the head can get a fair amount of dirt & corrosion, so you may need to clean/scrape them to ensure a good seal. Just be careful to keep the debris out of the cylinder.
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Eugene
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Re: Just picked up a 1974

Postby Eugene » Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:09 pm

Jim Becker wrote:I've never used a torque wrench on a tractor spark plug. Maybe someone else has a number.
About 20 ftlbs.

Likewise, I never use a torque wrench. Gasket crush and then about 1/4 turn.
I have an excuse. CRS.

Crimson Tim
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:09 pm
Zip Code: 32736
Tractors Owned: The crew:
"John", 1952 Cub
"Paul", 1951 Cub
"George", 1958 LoBoy Cub with Wagner 45 Loader
"Ringo", 1977 Cub

So far, Paul and Ringo have arrived. John and George were supposed to follow ages ago, but apparently have gone awol. Long story.
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Just picked up a 1974

Postby Crimson Tim » Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:52 pm

Made a few more baby steps.
Since my box end wrench ratchets, it’s a little bit fatter than most. Turns out it really doesn’t reach the spark plugs sufficiently, particularly number three where the exhaust manifold is in the way.
In the “don’t try this at home“ department, I did manage to get a set of channel locks on all of the plugs and pull them successfully.
They were all pretty carbony, but the gaps were OK at a little too tight on my .025 gauge. It appears that some sort of thread sealant was used on several of these. Unscrewing #4 felt gummy all the way out, and I swear there is Teflon tape on #2.

778F69C9-56DC-45D9-9704-E1719A414054.jpeg


I cleaned the carbon off of all the electrodes, cleaned up the threads and washers as best I could and re-inserted them. Pretty sure I got them tighter than they were before, in spite of the channel locks. I also tightened down the electrodes at the *top* of the plugs where the wires attach because every single one was loose.

Since it actually isn’t raining right now, I sprinkled a little water around each of the plugs and tried to start a couple times. In spite of the fact that I had bubbling around every plug, it fired a couple of times and almost managed to start one or twice. Definitely, better than last night.

38C71A77-89E6-495F-9237-B2BD51083387.jpeg


So the verdict for right now is that the plugs and their sealing surfaces are definitely a problem. As usual, Dale is right. I will hunt down new plugs and a proper wrench with which to tighten them that fits in that space. I think I need to clean up the surface of the head where the crush washer lands also. I think I will try tying a string around a wad of cotton balls to stuff down the plug hole while I do a little sanding and scraping around the edge, then blow it clear before pulling the cotton back out. Unless anyone has a better idea?

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Don McCombs
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Posts: 15631
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:45 am
Zip Code: 21550
Tractors Owned: "1950 Something" Farmall Cub
1957 Farmall Cub w/FH
1977 International Cub w/FH
1978 International Cub
1948 Farmall Super A
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MD, Deep Creek Lake

Re: Just picked up a 1974

Postby Don McCombs » Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:30 pm

7/8 deep well socket is what you need.
Don McCombs
MD, Deep Creek Lake

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Proud Member of Maryland Chapter 39
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Crimson Tim
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:09 pm
Zip Code: 32736
Tractors Owned: The crew:
"John", 1952 Cub
"Paul", 1951 Cub
"George", 1958 LoBoy Cub with Wagner 45 Loader
"Ringo", 1977 Cub

So far, Paul and Ringo have arrived. John and George were supposed to follow ages ago, but apparently have gone awol. Long story.
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Just picked up a 1974

Postby Crimson Tim » Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:45 pm

Ok. I replaced the plugs, cleaned up the sealing surface, gapped plugs to a tight 0.025, put a bit of seafoam in the cylinders during the switch, let them sit for a couple of hours, aaaaaaaaand……….. nothing. Not even a pop. No spark today. I could not get as spark even right out of the coil. :evil:

I had spark last week. Where did it go? I still have battery voltage at the coil +, coil -, and to the input to the side of the distributor. Condenser is new as of last week, and provided spark successfully then.

Could the points that I kissed with a file prior installation have corroded that fast? It has been wet.

Frustrating. Back to square one.

User avatar
Don McCombs
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 15631
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:45 am
Zip Code: 21550
Tractors Owned: "1950 Something" Farmall Cub
1957 Farmall Cub w/FH
1977 International Cub w/FH
1978 International Cub
1948 Farmall Super A
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MD, Deep Creek Lake

Re: Just picked up a 1974

Postby Don McCombs » Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:31 pm

I don't see where you have done a compression check on this tractor. Have you?
Don McCombs
MD, Deep Creek Lake

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Proud Member of Maryland Chapter 39
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