Not your typical 6v 12v question / Ignition Problems - New Cub Owner

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LFEngineering
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Not your typical 6v 12v question / Ignition Problems - New Cub Owner

Postby LFEngineering » Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:04 am

Preface:
While I just picked up this F Cub this weekend it's not my first IH; I was a proud Lo-Boy 185 owner for years. In any case I'm somewhat familiar with this motor family. Obviously some things had changed from 1952 to 1975.

Backstory:
I was at an estate sale picking up some metal working equipment when I saw this lonely F Cub under a tarp in the backyard. I need another tractor like I need a hole in my head, but the guys cleaning out the house the scrapper type and I couldn't see it get junked. Plus I hadn't been in a fight with my wife in awhile so I made them an offer and took it home.

Initial Analysis:
Motor free, good used oil (no contamination or recent change), tarp covered, cap on exhaust, fuel smelled good. I figured there was a fair chance I could get it running again. Not to mention the plow and the wheel weights would get me most of my money back if things went south.

1st Attempt:
(Rookie Move Warning) I hooked up the jump pack like I would any other time (neg ground) and hit the starter. Motor spun over fine with compression. I tested to see if the coil was getting power with a test light and it was. I attempted to fire with a squirt of gas in the carb, no luck. I expanded my electrical test with an inline spark gap checker and found no spark. Not having much time to work on it I unloaded it and parked it in the yard.

2nd Attempt:
Having done some research I found out this machine (S/N 149318) is most likely 6v Pos Ground, this seemed to be confirmed when I checked the under seat battery and positive went to the frame. With this new found info I swapped the jump pack (still 12v) and spun it over again. No spark.
No big deal, the points are probably corroded let's pull the distro cap and see what's inside. To my surprise I found what looks to be a recently installed pertronix style electric ignition. Now I'm starting to wonder. Couple this with the Flamethrower Coil that's mounted above with a muffler clamp I have NO IDEA what the previous owner has done.

Odd observation:
After the whole neg / pos ground issue I assumed the starter would have just spun backwards. Thankfully the tractor came with the crank handle so I verified the motor spins CW when viewed from the front. Oddly enough regardless of battery polarity the starter always spins the motor CW.

Questions:
6v - 12v: Since I already need a battery, and probably a charging system is it worth just upgrading to a 12v system?
Can we verify the electronic ignition was the proper one for this 6v machine?
Can we verify the coil is the proper one? I'm not sure a 3.0 ohm coil is correct.
Can I reinstall points or was part of the distributor junked when the electronic ignition installed? / Can I just replace the distro with an aftermarket unit?
Starter looks to be newer, is there any way to verify a 12v vs 6v starter? I mean it spins fine on 12v.
Does anyone have a wiring diagram for a distro with electronic ignition?

Thanks in advance! Andy
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tst
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Re: Not your typical 6v 12v question / Ignition Problems - New Cub Owner

Postby tst » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:02 pm

bet you will find the electronic is NG, they work well when they work , but are picky, good grounds, proper voltage etc or they will fail

bofahs
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Re: Not your typical 6v 12v question / Ignition Problems - New Cub Owner

Postby bofahs » Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:42 pm

The numbers on the pertronix should tell you volts & ground. Also, I've spoken with them - they're really good about helping. I like their stuff, but you can burn it up. Not sure the 12v jump would not do that, but you can ask.

[If you want to burn one up, leave the ignition on overnight. That's how I did it!]

IMHO, going to 12v. makes everything except winning restoration trophies easier.

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Re: Not your typical 6v 12v question / Ignition Problems - New Cub Owner

Postby Eugene » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:31 pm

First thing, PRIME THE OIL PUMP. Notice that's in caps.

I would convert back to points and condenser. Much less expensive than purchasing another electronic ignition. No need to throw a lot of money into the tractor until you know how well it runs. No need to change the distributor.

3 ohm coil - ok.

I wouldn't convert to 12 volt system until you got the tractor running.

On your starter. Turns the same direction with positive or negative ground. 6 volt starter works on a 12 volt system, just turns the engine over faster.
I have an excuse. CRS.

outdoors4evr
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Re: Not your typical 6v 12v question / Ignition Problems - New Cub Owner

Postby outdoors4evr » Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:32 am

Your picture shows a pertronix part number 1442. This is a 12v negative ground pertronix model.
https://pertronixbrands.com/products/pe ... -ihc-4-cyl
I have the same model in my 184 and it has been running for 10 years without issue.

If you want to keep it 6v, then put in the points and condenser. If you want to move to 12v, then purchase a battery, alternator & bracket (Mini Denso 1 wire fits best) and change the light bulbs to 12v. You may also have to change some wiring around with the cutout relay or regulator.

Personally, I'd get it running on 12v first. (remove the light bulbs). It won't charge 12v, but just get it running.
First, prime the oil pump, then verify spark.
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Re: Not your typical 6v 12v question / Ignition Problems - New Cub Owner

Postby inairam » Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:44 am

I personally have had no luck with the pertronix systems at 6 volts. They do work great at the 12. I have tried it on two or three of my 6-volt cubs and could not get it to work. the 12 v worked no problem.

I would go back to points till you get it running. I doubt you need a whole charging system probably just a regulator.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

LFEngineering
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Re: Not your typical 6v 12v question / Ignition Problems - New Cub Owner

Postby LFEngineering » Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:04 am

Ended up rechecking (for the 5th time) the connections, replacing the "Ground" from the coil to the chassis. It wouldn't show spark on the inline tester, but when holding a plug on the chassis it would spark. Ended up getting running on ether for a few seconds then turned the gas on and off she went. Success.

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Re: Not your typical 6v 12v question / Ignition Problems - New Cub Owner

Postby Gary Dotson » Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:13 am

The Pertronix, in your photo, is a 6 volt pos. gnd. unit. Both wires are black and it is wired as the 6 volt is wired. (They are connected differently than the 12 volt.) If you haven’t already fried it with the 12 volt jump box, it’s just good luck. The 3 ohm coil is wrong, though, 6 volt should have 1.5 ohm.

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Re: Not your typical 6v 12v question / Ignition Problems - New Cub Owner

Postby indy61 » Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:45 pm

It looks like a burnt wire in this photo. When I searched for PV5M it came up as a 12v positive ground module.

Image


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