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Seeking Wisdom - Bent Depth Control Screw

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Patbretagne
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Postby Patbretagne » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:08 pm

Sorry, to hear of the broken screw,
I have found one or two things on Baby that have gone cristalised ofer the 50 years they have been jangling about in field and roads, they broke off!
Things that have been bent don't like getting bent back again even hot, I think there is perhaps and I say perhaps, more chance of getting a non break straightening with a nice cherry red heat, but that very heating tends to drag the carbon content out of the steel further weakening it, so even though it may be straight it doesn't have the strength of 1950.
Experts please, does cast steel have more trouble in straightening than mild steel?
Pat

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George Willer
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Postby George Willer » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:50 pm

Pat,

I can't claim to be an expert, but I do have a little metalurgy experience from operating my back yard foundry. I'm surprised Lance had his trouble with straightening the screw. All is not lost, since it will probably lend itself well to repair by welding... probably by OA fusion welding. (JB Weld will probally not add anything to the strength)

This is unlike the welding of cast iron which doesn't lend itself well to welding in high stress areas. The cast iron welds themselves are strong enough, but the parent metal adjacent to the weld is compromised.

Mild steel doesn't have enough carbon content to work harden. This is NOT true of cast steel. Check out this web site for a little nitty-gritty explanation:
http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/phase-trans/2001/adi/cast.iron.html
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George Willer
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Postby George Willer » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:50 pm

Pat,

I can't claim to be an expert, but I do have a little metalurgy experience from operating my back yard foundry. I'm surprised Lance had his trouble with straightening the screw. All is not lost, since it will probably lend itself well to repair by welding... probably by OA fusion welding. (JB Weld will probally not add anything to the strength)

This is unlike the welding of cast iron which doesn't lend itself well to welding in high stress areas. The cast iron welds themselves are strong enough, but the parent metal adjacent to the weld is compromised.

Mild steel doesn't have enough carbon content to work harden. This is NOT true of cast steel. Check out this web site for a little nitty-gritty explanation:
http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/phase-trans/2001/adi/cast.iron.html
George Willer
http://gwill.net

The most affectionate creature in the world is a wet dog. Ambrose Bierce

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Postby sviennadan » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:32 pm

George -

What a great discourse on cast iron. I know I learned a lot from reading it. Thanks! :D As always, you are the master.

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Patbretagne
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Postby Patbretagne » Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:13 am

Thanks George for your "double talking" replies!
The thesis from Cambridge was I am afraid to say a bit over my head. I think also there seems to be a cross atlantic word/term problem.
The crankshaft that the article shows would I think be called Cast STEEL over here, cast iron is either the grey stuff that castings that aren't going to take bending stresses are made of and if you hiyt it it breaks and is christaline inside, the only efficient way I've found of sticking this together is what we call brazing, heating to red with a flux and then a "brass/bronze rod and filling the gap thus sticking the two parts together. The other is what we call ductile iron, not steel, the sort of thing that screwed black iron plumbing elbows, tees etc are made from.
Would the former be the "Grey" and our cast steel the "white" cast irons that the article speaks of?
Very interesting
I agree JBWeld wouldn't do anything in a case such as this.
Pat

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Lance Leitzel
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Postby Lance Leitzel » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:33 am

Yes - I can testify that JBWeld did nothing in this case, other than keeing my hands full from using to two broken pieces on my head for being a dummy. It was an interesting attempt. So, now I'm off to dig up someone who knows how to Oxy-Acetylene weld. Funny thing, is that I evenutally want to learn to weld (Mig most likely, since I've been told that it is fairly easy to learn). At least I know this isn't the best practice piece in the world.

Just for giggles, how does one know what type of metal one is working with tractors like ours? Are most things cast on our tractors? Would it make more sense to learn the art of Oxy-Acetylene welding instead of Mig? Funny thing is that my father-in-law has an Oxy-Acetylene setup, but doesn't know how to use it. He only trusts his foreman to use it and both are soon due to retire.
Ego diligo meus tracti.
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Patbretagne
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Postby Patbretagne » Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:22 pm

Lance Leitzel wrote: Funny thing is that my father-in-law has an Oxy-Acetylene setup, but doesn't know how to use it. He only trusts his foreman to use it and both are soon due to retire.

Hay, snap it up before it is liquidated!
Not difficult, depends what you want to weld, Mig, Stick Oxy, all have their "ways" try to have someone teach you the basics and safety of course, and than just keep at it till you get good, that's how most of us have got there, Eh guys?
Pat

Jim Becker
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Postby Jim Becker » Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:09 pm

Lance Leitzel wrote:Just for giggles, how does one know what type of metal one is working with tractors like ours?

The spark test can help:
http://shopswarf.orcon.net.nz/spark.html

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Patbretagne
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Postby Patbretagne » Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:43 am

Jim, thanks for the spark site, for a long time one has realised that different steels make different patterns of sparks, but never had it in diagram form to identify steels, Thank you very much
Pat

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Break

Postby allenlook » Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:15 am

I'm no mettalurgist either, but I figured there was a chance that screw would break, being as it was bent so much. Sorry to hear that it did, and yep JB Weld isn't much good for that sort of thing. It works great putting new threads in a hole or filling cracks, but it can't really stand up to that sort of torque and lateral stresses. I wish it could, I'd use it to rebuild the side of the threaded hole that cracked away on my final drive - I'm looking at AlumaWeld or whatever it's called instead for that, and for fixing the crack in my water jacket. I picked up some rods the other day at the local Harbor Freight and I'm going to play around with it when I get a chance. I don't know if it could fix a screw, though.
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