48' Cub - Get it running - Update

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phill_mi
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Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:22 pm
Zip Code: 49435
Tractors Owned: [url=http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=113461]48 Farmall Cub[/url]
C22 sickle
'52 Ferguson TO-30
'63 Farmall 560 gas
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: 48' Cub - Get it running - Update

Postby phill_mi » Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:26 am

So much has happened in the last few days, I am not sure how to get caught up on the "update".
I moved the engine to an engine stand, which was an interesting dance between the legs of the engine stand and the legs of the engine crane.
To mount the engine on the stand I had to remove the clutch and the fly wheel. The clutch plate was worn to into the rivets on both sides. The fingers were not even and very worn. The throw-bearing looks very worn but have not got the lower pin released yet. The upper pine is grooved where the hanger pivots on it and I expect the hanger holes are probably elongated.
The ring gear teeth are worn all the way around and severely on some places. Looking from the side and perpendicular to the face of the fly wheel the sever areas are worn half the distance of the top of the tooth and most are worn at least a third of the distance.
Removed the front wheels to decrease weight on the engine stand and need to remove the bolster, which is next priority. While doing this noticed that the left vertical turning rotation is very sloppy when the top of that shaft is held firmly. The right side is solid. So another area to research and reason to take the front end apart and work on it.
Removed the head. Bolts came out easy. Lots of carbon. Looks similar to Stanton's engine works pictures.
Asked mechanic friends if they could recommend machinist. Stopped by the one they recommended but he does not do tractor projects any more as the guy that did then retired. He provided other recommendations. Then I heard of a tractor show near by and went to it after work on Thursday and last night. 54th annual Riverbend tractor show near Allendale, MI. I connected with several cub enthusiasts who gave me advice and recommendations of machinists and radiator folks to talk to. I have never been to a tractor show. Very interested. Talked to an organizer. Plan to join their club and help clean-up after the show ends this evening. I was planning to take pictures of above changes and post them, but now focused on doing a few things before I run off to the tractor show again.
Concerning the radiator, a prior PO did not put the bolts in that hold the front of the hood, which are hidden behind the grill. They were missing. As a result the hood was rubbing on the top of the radiator on both front corners, and on one side seems to have rubbed through as there are very small cracks. I may try to solder that or take it to a radiator shop for their advice.

phill_mi
Cub Star
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Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:22 pm
Zip Code: 49435
Tractors Owned: [url=http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=113461]48 Farmall Cub[/url]
C22 sickle
'52 Ferguson TO-30
'63 Farmall 560 gas
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: 48' Cub - Get it running - Update

Postby phill_mi » Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:26 am

Sorry I accidently clicked submit before I proofed the above, which I am sure has spelling to grammar errors

phill_mi
Cub Star
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Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:22 pm
Zip Code: 49435
Tractors Owned: [url=http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=113461]48 Farmall Cub[/url]
C22 sickle
'52 Ferguson TO-30
'63 Farmall 560 gas
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: 48' Cub - Get it running - Update

Postby phill_mi » Sat Jul 16, 2022 11:18 am

The sloppy play in the left front wheel, related to the rotation around the vertical shaft seems to be related to a 'field modification'. On the right side the steering knuckle arm has a square head screw that is pointed and a jam nut. This screw and and nut are not shown on page 3-6 of the service manual as the design must have changed since this 48 was made. The right side is firm. The left side steering knuckle arm has been drilled out for a larger 3/4" bolt and it appears a helix coil inserted. The 3/4 bolt is flat on the end and looking in the hole one can see where they did not drill all the way through. I have not succeeded in getting the axle free from the tractor yet, so I don't know what I am seeing in that hole.

Jim Becker
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Re: 48' Cub - Get it running - Update

Postby Jim Becker » Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:02 pm

That is an early style that was used until 1950. The setscrew is 1/2 NC. Then they changed to fine thread for a year or so until changing to the keyed and clamped style. The end is sometimes broken off the setscrews. After that, they usually get run loose. When the tip breaks off, it usually stays in the knuckle. The hole in the knuckle is tapered but goes clear through. Usually, you can remove the arm then knock the broken piece out with a punch. Yours probably still has the broken tip stuck in it. You may be able to make an adequate repair by knocking the broken piece out and grinding the end of the 3/4 bolt to match the required taper. A more thorough repair would be either repair the threads in the arm (if enough original material is still there) or replacing the arm and getting a new proper setscrew.

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Dale Finch
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Tractors Owned: '51 Cub #140966 "Bruno" with Woods 59 mower
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Re: 48' Cub - Get it running - Update

Postby Dale Finch » Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:19 pm

This is the kind of set screw Jim is talking about above:
http://www.tmtractor.com/new/st/768fp.htm

I believe there are some posts that go into detail on removing those broken bolts, if you do a search.
Dale Finch
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phill_mi
Cub Star
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Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:22 pm
Zip Code: 49435
Tractors Owned: [url=http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=113461]48 Farmall Cub[/url]
C22 sickle
'52 Ferguson TO-30
'63 Farmall 560 gas
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: 48' Cub - Get it running - Update

Postby phill_mi » Sat Jul 16, 2022 5:51 pm

Thanks. I will search. I got the tie rods loose and removed the large pin in the middle of the axle to remove the axle. I also got the bolster off the engine. I have been removing stuff from the engine and carefully cleaning off the carbon on top of the pistons with the engine upside down to keep stuff out of the engine. A friend just let me know that he has tools to compress valve springs and hone the bore so I will take a break to do research and borrow tools. I'm not sure how to get the knuckle arm off the knuckle shaft, but I thought I would set that aside and try to get the block ready for a machinist, which I am guessing will take some time to complete.

phill_mi
Cub Star
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Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:22 pm
Zip Code: 49435
Tractors Owned: [url=http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=113461]48 Farmall Cub[/url]
C22 sickle
'52 Ferguson TO-30
'63 Farmall 560 gas
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: 48' Cub - Get it running - Update

Postby phill_mi » Wed Jul 20, 2022 7:41 pm

Last night I spent some time using red plastiguage to check my rod and main bearings as I disassemble my 48 cub. The four rod bearings were between .003 and .004, often closer to .004. The bearings were labeled 'm IH (logo) usa 251248-R2 L-200 5' (probably should have had a leading 'F' but that was not visible). The front main bearing was .006. It was labeled 'Fm IH(logo) usa 251267-R2 L-200 3 48'. I ran out of time last night to do the other to main bearings. Given the trend it might be curious to continue, but I plan to proceed to take this block to a machinist to be measured with more accurate tools than I have access to.

From reading GSS-1306 on service failures it looks like these bearings and journals are in good to normal wear with dome evidence of scratching. Somewhere in one of the IH manuals I read an explanation of the bearing markings, but I can't find it now. But I take it these are original OEM parts from 1948, which would confirm my suspicion that tractor was repainted at some point long ago, but was not opened up and serviced, since there are other components like the governor which have a lot of internal wear.

Here are some pictures.
Attachments
c20220719_202829rj4.jpg
rod journal #4
c20220719_202800rb4.jpg
rod bearing #4
c20220719_201531rj1p.jpg
rod journal #1 plastigauge
c20220719_195659rb1.jpg
rod bearing #1
c20220719_195417rj1.jpg
rod journal #1

phill_mi
Cub Star
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Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:22 pm
Zip Code: 49435
Tractors Owned: [url=http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=113461]48 Farmall Cub[/url]
C22 sickle
'52 Ferguson TO-30
'63 Farmall 560 gas
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: 48' Cub - Get it running - Update

Postby phill_mi » Wed Jul 20, 2022 7:45 pm

more pictures
c20220719_204803rj4p.jpg
rod journal #4 gauged .003

c20220719_212339rj3p.jpg
rod journal #3 gauged .003

c20220719_213259mb1.jpg
main bearing #1

c20220719_214417mb1p.jpg
main journal #1 gauged .006

tst
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Re: 48' Cub - Get it running - Update

Postby tst » Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:49 pm

measure the journal in a few spots to make sure they are round, they do make .002 oversize bearings that would put those rods in spec

phill_mi
Cub Star
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Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:22 pm
Zip Code: 49435
Tractors Owned: [url=http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=113461]48 Farmall Cub[/url]
C22 sickle
'52 Ferguson TO-30
'63 Farmall 560 gas
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: 48' Cub - Get it running - Update

Postby phill_mi » Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:25 pm

I used plastigauge on the remaining two main journals. The center one was about 2/3 the width of the .006 gauge, which is some value greater than .006. The rear main journal was also .006 similar to the front main journal. But curiously the rear main bearing has groves on the front edge of the center oil ring, but I don't see any similar deformation in the journal, which I take to be good.
c20220722_193211mb3.jpg
main rear bearing with groves on front side of bearing

c20220722_193237mj3.jpg
main rear journal, gauged at .006

Now that I have a sense of the condition using pasltigauge, I plan to continue with disassembly, to remove the crankshaft and then try to measure the journals and bores as best I can. The other day I made a preliminary phone call to the machinist I plan to work with. I plan to get the block, head, crankshaft and camshaft to him to check for damage and measure before making any decisions on which parts to order. He indicated that he is seeing a lot of supply chain disruption, so there may be long lead-times on parts. I have been checking some of the suppliers that I am aware of, starting with sponsors, and the bearing values that I assume we will need seem to be available. We will have that discussion after I find out what the measurements are. I understand that it is best to remove everything from the block and do as much cleaning as I can ahead of time. I take it I should remove the old bearing shells. Is there any reason to show them to him? Thanks for all the advice!

phill_mi
Cub Star
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Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:22 pm
Zip Code: 49435
Tractors Owned: [url=http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=113461]48 Farmall Cub[/url]
C22 sickle
'52 Ferguson TO-30
'63 Farmall 560 gas
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: 48' Cub - Get it running - Update

Postby phill_mi » Sat Jul 23, 2022 11:31 am

I borrowed a ridge reamer, but it seems to be just a little to big to be used. I think its minimum size is 2 11/16. I noticed that the bores are smooth along the edge closest to the cam shaft but the opposing edge has a ridge which prevents the old pistons from being removed. Each of the cylinders seems to have similar wear pattern. My measurement of the #4 bore at the very top is 2.6270 and just below the ridge I get 2.6334 (parallel or perpendicular to the crankshaft). Do I need to keep looking for a smaller ridge reamer or is there another approach that might be suggested? Is it typical to see all of the wear on one side of the cylinder?

tst
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Re: 48' Cub - Get it running - Update

Postby tst » Sat Jul 23, 2022 11:38 am

cylinders wear tapered top to bottom, find most need to be bored

phill_mi
Cub Star
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Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:22 pm
Zip Code: 49435
Tractors Owned: [url=http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=113461]48 Farmall Cub[/url]
C22 sickle
'52 Ferguson TO-30
'63 Farmall 560 gas
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: 48' Cub - Get it running - Update

Postby phill_mi » Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:10 pm

I have stripped down the block and I hope I can get organized enough to take the parts to a machinist tomorrow. I plan to take the block, head, cam and crankshaft. I made a bunch of measurements with my 0.0001 resolution calipers, but I know that they will have more appropriate tools and expertise. I think the cam is OK. I expect the cylinders will need to be bored and valve seats ground. The crank may need to be turned. I plan to put old parts, like the pistons, in a box to bring with me, so that they can look at them if necessary. They indicated that we should not buy any new parts until they magnaflux the block and head, and take some measurements. The contact area of the fly wheel seems to be fine so I don't think any machining of the fly wheel is needed. Are there other parts that I should take to them?

The oil pressure valve was stuck in the block. My iterations of the tool to grab the valve (detailed in a How To) did not work. Ultimately I used a piece of CAT6 wire, through the oil channel from the hole in the front of the block for the crankshaft, to push the valve out the opening where the spring had been removed. The thing I noticed is that there is a moon shaped raised area on the external surface of the valve that matches the circumference of the vertical oil shaft. I have not been able to clean this build-up or wear area off. Can this valve be refurbished or should I get a new valve from TM?

Any other advise about talking to the machinist? Many of the folks at the Riverbend Gas and Steam vintage tractor club recommended this shop.


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