IH Spark Plug Boot

[Phillip W. Lenke]

I have recently made a Prototype Mold to reproduce Original Spark Plug Boots. I will not produce them with out the IH Logo. I contacted IH and they require a $2000.00 upfront fee. as well as references etc etc etc. Get my Point? I will pursue this only if there is enough interest. I have made a 1 Off Aluminum Tool now , to make sure the part fits and have one to send off to a few of you guys for fit and appearance. Plus I have some for my Tractors . Plan to make a larger Steel tool. But I will need some Kind of Idea if there is enough interest to pursue this area. I Need some kind of Idea of how much will the market bear as well.
Help Please. I want to provide a part like this, at an affordable price for all.
Phil

[Rudi]

Phil:

Finally Parts I can use I would definitely love to have 3 sets of boots -- that would be both ends huh 3 Cubs, 3 sets of boots. As long as the cost is not too prohibitive...

And the grommets will go along with the boots

Let me know what the cost would be once you find out if you can do it.. and I will take the 3 sets

[Rick Prentice]

Hey Phil. I'd be interested in a couple sets. Man, IH must think you're going to get rich or something to charge that much. Souinds like alittle greed might be involved, on their part. Sure can't be from any liability type issues that I can think of. I think you should start your own product line labelled ( HI ) instead of (IH)

[Phillip W. Lenke]

Actually
CNH bought the rights to the Trade Marks.
I 'm not so concerned about their making money. It's just that, I want to be marketable. want to make an exceptional part as original as possible. at a fair price . Tired of these sets,that are fuctional but leave alot to be desired as far as sealing. I'm here to tell you these puppies fit snug around the wire and when you pop them off you hear that suction sound. That is what I wanted. So hopefully I can make them available to the rest of us cubbers and IH enthusiests.
Phil

[WKPoor]

PWL, I know exactly where your at with the cost vs market. Somethings are so neat and needed but if the startup cost is way out way the market payback then????? I'm in for a couple of sets FYI.

I had an email the other day from a guy wanting to know if the Tools I'm selling where lagite. I said what do you mean. He said do these come from real manufacturing or are they homemade. I replied they are manufactured at home. He said do you have liability insurance. I said no as I figured the liability to be minimul however someone could drop one on their foot. I thought to myself ... if what I'm selling did have ins. then obviously they wouldn't be as cheap as they are, maybe double or triple the cost, and then of course they would be too expensive for anyone to buy and therefore no service would be had to the Cubing community.

Earl said take note of who that was and make sure we don't sell to him!

[Rudi]

Bill:

Earl had sound advice.. copy his name down and never, ever sell ANYTHING to him..

Jeez.. when will these people get a life

But seriously.... there are many people on this forum who will thank you and Earl, and you too Phil as well as Rick and the other creative people on this forum for designing and building some of this wonderful stuff. I do hope that these kinds of concerns would not prevent good parts from making it to Cubbers. I had the same problems to ponder over for the Manual Server... liability issues... finally said the heck with it.. bit the bullet and did it. I am glad I did..

And I am anxiously awaiting my next delivery.. hopefully it will arrive tomorrow

I am not sure what a good disclaimer would be.. but something like..

This item in the hands of an idiots, could cause serious bodily damage... USE AT YOUR OWN RISK I have finally figured out what Liability Insurance is..

It is a lifetime pension for idiots who do not know how to read instructions, do not care to learn, refuse to use a tool for it's proper use and instead use a hammer as a cut off tool.... and when they screw up and hurt/maim or do otherwise serious damage to themselves, consistently blame it on someone else.. usually the guy who made the tool they didn't know how to use/cared to learn or informed themselves on proper safety procedures.

And, there is always an ambulance chaser - (I dislike using the word Lawyer, Advocate, or Barrister as there are many, many honourable members of that profession), around who makes a good living litigating for these idiots.

What gets me is where is Personal Responsibility for One's Own Actions fit in to this scenario My parents always taught me -- You Make Your Bed.. YOU LIE IN IT

I keep thinking of my local Tim Hortons. Every time I look at a coffee cup and see that warning sign Coffee - HOT! , I think of McDonald's and that stupendous Nuisance Liability Suit that gave that little old lady a fortune entirely because of GROSS STUPIDITY.. Of course Coffee is HOT otherwise it would be called what???? Ice Java???

[Mike Schmudlach]

The spark plug boots w/ logo are already being made by a vendor.
I have access to about 500 NOS ones.
I think they are only about 25 cents each, I will check my source.
Mike

[Mike Schmudlach]

Also CNH did not buy the logo. International Truck and engine still owns the IH symbol and name etc...... They did lease it to CNH.
Mike

[Boss Hog]

Phil you can put me down for 4 sets and Bill I will try not to drop any of the tools I bought from you on my foot or Heven forbid drop it on a rat wouldn't want the tree hugers to get fretted to.
David

[Phillip W. Lenke]

Mike
Thanks for the info. However I talked to John at Brillmans and he said his cost is 4 times that. If there is someone out there making them for $.25. Please check it out and let us know . I'm sure John would like his name as well. Are they made in the USA?
Phil

[Mag Man]

I know someone that is doing something similar to that and I dont know that he is regerstered or has a trademark or anything he justs makes the parts sells the parts and when someone asks a question he changes the subject. LOL So dont worry about it show what you have tell what they do and pics and just sell them. who is to know that they came from China, Indo, mexico,USA. CNH, Or your own shop.
Magman

[Matt Kirsch]

Rudi,

With regards to that disclaimer, you're generally better off without one. The reason for this is because a disclaimer can now be viewed as an admission of "guilt" by a court of law, at least in the US. You're acknowledging that your product is not safe, so when some dope cuts off his left arm with your latest Nerf widget, he's got you over a barrell. Without a disclaimer at least you have plausible deniability, "Gee, I did not know my product could possibly be used in such a manner." You're still over a barrel, but maybe a smaller one.

[Arizona Mike]

This is John Brillman's boot


Last year whn we talked about this I put this one up on ebay to see if there was any significant demand. Not much, didn't even get an opening bid. Its a nice product.

Phil, your best bet may be to continue on with Brillman.

Having said that, I'll take 5 sets when you get them ready

Thanks Phil

[Rudi]

Matt:

I think you have a point.

What is really beginning to cheese me off if how now matter what you say, some moron has to find a way to make you at fault for whatever stupid thing a fellow human without common sense can manage to do to hurt/dismember/maim or possible kill oneself by not using what God gave em between their ears.

If some of these people took the energy that they expend trying to find ways to screw up everything and manage to find a loophole somewhere in law so that they can litigate anything.. and used it for something constructive.. imagine where we could be as a race

Phil:

I think that since you are not in this to be a commercial enterprise that will somehow try to take CNH for a ride, I think you should just make em. Sell them on a custom basis.. basically (yeah, you can have stock set aside) to a closed community ( - us Cubbers & other IH enthusiasts - ), and you should not run afoul of anyone. They are just re-pros of items NO LONGER AVAILABLE.. if CaseIH is no longer supplying these, then they have basically orphaned their claim. As long as you do not sell them as genuine IH replacement parts, then you should be alright.

At least that is my take on International Copyright Law, as I have found so far in my travels. Just be sure to indicate that the IH Logo is now used by CNH under Licence from IH Trucks... etc...

Also, as an aside... you take all these people selling ripped off copies of IH Manuals (tongue in cheek comment here), and nobody is up in arms about it. It is not an infringement of copyright, because they actually indicate that the Logo and other trademarks are the property of the individual corporations... so I would think some safety and precedent is there..

[Jim Becker]

Matt:
Phil:

I think that since you are not in this to be a commercial enterprise that will somehow try to take CNH for a ride, I think you should just make em. Sell them on a custom basis.. basically (yeah, you can have stock set aside) to a closed community ( - us Cubbers & other IH enthusiasts - ), and you should not run afoul of anyone. They are just re-pros of items NO LONGER AVAILABLE.. if CaseIH is no longer supplying these, then they have basically orphaned their claim. As long as you do not sell them as genuine IH replacement parts, then you should be alright.

At least that is my take on International Copyright Law, as I have found so far in my travels. Just be sure to indicate that the IH Logo is now used by CNH under Licence from IH Trucks... etc...

I would STRONGLY encourage you to not take this route. This is dealing with trademark law, not copyright law. They are very different. Making parts with a trademarked logo without permission makes them counterfeit parts. It is taken VERY seriously by most companies. Whether the original company is still supplying the part has no legal bearing. Since you inquired to the company about permission, you wouldn't even have a chance to plead ignorance. You can be sure your inquiry and the response have been copied and saved in the legal department. If they catch you infringing on their trademark, you can be equally sure it will cost you much more than $2,000 (probably even to win!!)

At this point, I see only two ways to make the part without exposing yourself to a big financial risk.
1) Pay the $2,000 and jump the rest of the hoops.
2) Work through somebody else (like maybe Brillman or OEM) that already bought rights and work as a subcontractor to them. This would no doubt require that all sales go through them.