Wanted: Info on Log Splitters

[BigBill]

I'm sorry but i'm still kind of new to tractors and kind of ignorant but my 154 cub is rated 15.4 HP @ the pto or this is what i'm told how they rate it. I find it rather hard to accept a 4 cylinder engine is rated 15.4 HP @ the engine. I may go the 3pt log splitter way with a pump on the PTO and hydraulic tank, I think its the way to go right now that i'm stuck for a log splitter with 10 cords of wood and more by winters end. I'm new to this tractor thing and i expect my 154 cub to mow, plow snow and split wood. When i get my farmall A or super A that will brush hog and till my field because of the 540 PTO and 20 HP.

My misses just doesn't get it yet that tractors are for work. She thinks there toys for me to play with. How did you get your misses into tractors? I tell her to do the work we have to use machines as we get older. I moved 66 yards of fill by hand when i was in my 20's using two gravely tractors one with a rotary plow to loosen it up and the other with a snow blade to push it were it had to go. Now that i'm 56 and disabled I just can't do that anymore. But having tractors puts me like i'm in my 20's again till I get off the tractor right?

[Rudi]

Bill:

I'm sorry but i'm still kind of new to tractors and kind of ignorant but my 154 cub is rated 15.4 HP @ the pto or this is what i'm told how they rate it. I find it rather hard to accept a 4 cylinder engine is rated 15.4 HP @ the engine.

There are others who can explain this much better than I.. but you are kind of correct. The 15.4HP is not at the engine.. nor at the PTO but it is rated at the Draw-Bar. It is also a meaurement of how much work that particular tractor can do. Basically it means it has the power to work equivalent to 15.4 Horses hitched together as a team to complete a given task.

These days.. no one really is sure what HP means. In the case of Briggs & Stratton, Tecumseh, Honda etc., is it how much RPM's the engine can develop on a test bench with no load and nothing hooked up and the amount of work calculated from that?

In the case of a 4 cylinder engine is it the amount of RPM's it will develop on a test stand again with no load?

Or is it via the Nebraska Test datum that this number is derived from.

It is all greek to me..

I may go the 3pt log splitter way with a pump on the PTO and hydraulic tank, I think its the way to go right now that i'm stuck for a log splitter with 10 cords of wood and more by winters end. I'm new to this tractor thing and i expect my 154 cub to mow, plow snow and split wood.

The 154 PTO.. I am assuming is like all the other Cubs is it not a standard 540 RPM Clockwise Rotation PTO.. but is 1800 +/- and is counterclockwise rotating. Keep this in mind, but check with Jim Becker or a current owner of a Number Series Cub..

But regardless, an aftermarket splitter may be correct for you.

My misses just doesn't get it yet that tractors are for work. She thinks there toys for me to play with. How did you get your misses into tractors?

I am not sure how to do that... except via visual data. Put the tractor to work aside from mowing such as blowing snow.. hauling your split wood to the basement etc., for storage during the winter. In my case it is pretty simple... I have 10 cords of wood to haul.. it is accepted that this is defined as work. If I use Ellie to haul it.. then Ellie is doing the work.. not me.

Is Ellie one of my toys Of course.. but she also is a worker. And to qualify as a toy.. my toys (including my table saw, air equipment, cubs and anything else that could possibly fall into the Toys for Big Boys category) ALL do work -- even my computer.. Why.. because things like that are TOOLS to accomplish something specific that I cannot do by myself. That makes them workers not playthings.. does that help

[George Willer]

There are others who can explain this much better than I.. but you are kind of correct. The 15.4HP is not at the engine.. nor at the PTO but it is rated at the Draw-Bar. It is also a meaurement of how much work that particular tractor can do. Basically it means it has the power to work equivalent to 15.4 Horses hitched together as a team to complete a given task.

Rudi,

The drawbar HP will be considerably less than the rated 15.4, as is the case with all tractors I'm familiar with. The 15.4 is a calculated number, derived from the maximum torque the engine is able to produce at rated RPM. It is usually tested with any other load such as generator, fan, and water pump disconnected. I believe it is PTO horsepower.

To see how the test is conducted do a Google search for "Prony brake".

A draft horse is capable of developing several HP. The arbitrary number for HP is derived from the average work a horse was able to do in an entire day. A healthy man should be capable of sustaining about 5/8 HP. Athletes considerably more.

[Rudi]

Thank You George...

I like learnin new stuff regularly! HP is like Ohm's Law.. beyond my grasp

[Matt Kirsch]

I believe the forumula is:

HP = (Torque * RPM) / 5252

If a Cub makes 15.4HP at 1800 RPM, the torque calculates out to be approximately 45 ft-lbs.

[Little Indy]

At the Nebraska Test Lab the tractor pulls a special trailer around a standard tract as a greater and greater load is applied. After which its drawbar HP is calculated as well as its fuel efficiency (JD is the main competion here).

How the tractor test lab came to be is quite interesting. Seems many years ago a farmer bought that did not live up to its ads. The farmer happened to be a state senator as well. He sponsered a law that stated that a tractor may not be sold in the state of Nebraska unless it has been tested at the Unversity of Ne and all ads must use UNL test lab figures. For me and this is heresy in Lincoln The UNL test lab is more important than the football team.

Richard

[JBall8019]

i really like this subject!!!
rick , how did you keep the pump from rotating underneath your cub?
rudi, i sent you some files that you may find helpful. lol you may as well build a three point hitch too!!
john

[George Willer]

How the tractor test lab came to be is quite interesting. Seems many years ago a farmer bought that did not live up to its ads. The farmer happened to be a state senator as well. He sponsered a law that stated that a tractor may not be sold in the state of Nebraska unless it has been tested at the Unversity of Ne and all ads must use UNL test lab figures.

The tractor in question was a Ford. Not the Ford of Dearborn Mi, but a different one. The guy's name really was Ford and he was cashing in on the popularity of Henry's cars. Because he was using the Ford name Henry named his tractor Fordson... Ford and son.

[Rick Prentice]

John(jball), There's a couple rods installed to keep the pump from rotating. The pump has a quick coupler that snaps onto the 1 3/8-6 spline and I just install a quick snap on each of the two rods.

Rick

[JBall8019]

rick,
thanks for the detail. i have been wondering for some time on how your backhoe was powered. since i have a square section of tubing between my finals from my mower i could have a setup similar to yours. i think i will have to start scrounging around now to start making the stuff i have been wanting to build. i am assuming from the size of your pump and that its probably 20 gpm @ 2200 psi. am i that far off? the reason why i am asking is that my most of my neighbors work at a local auto plant or in trucking and they scrap all kinds of stuff. you mentioned earlier that a ps pump could work, i think it would have to be a large truck kind, do you agree?
thanks!!!
john

[WKPoor]

i am assuming from the size of your pump and that its probably 20 gpm @ 2200 psi. am i that far off?

John, There ain't no way. The formula is (gpm × Pressure (psi) / 1714 ). What you stated above would take almost 26 HP. And remember something I 've learned the hard way. Your hydraulic pump/system needs to be designed small enough for the engine to handle it at idle or slightly above, not at rated power. If it too large it will just kill the engine every time you move the control handle. The current Cub system is 2.8gpm @ 1500psi. That calculates out to 2.5 HP and even that can pull on the motor at idle.

[Rick Prentice]

Well WK, we'll just have to see about that, once I find my Woods manual . Woods stated that this unit needed at least around 30 hp , and I never run the cub engine over max 3/4 throttle, usually 1/2 with no problems.

Rick

[WKPoor]

Rick, I'm not sure I have a proper perspective, but that pic of your pump makes it look rather small so that I'm guessing its not real big on GPM which would be a plus for the Cub engine to handle it well. The calculation I did on the splitter came out pretty close and also based on my experience with it there is no way a C60 could power a 20gpm pump at 2200psi. Do you know if your application is turning the pump at close to the rpm as the original.

[Rick Prentice]

Hi WK. I finally found the Woods manual. All the information they give on the pump is a 2.61cu.in, CCW rotation. CCW is looking at the shaft. For someone to connect a pump to the Cub, they'd need a CW rotation pump, or do what I did.

My pumps phisical size is big, about the size of the big tubs of butter.

The set-up I have produces exactly 1/3 the engine rpm's, and like I stated, 98% of the time it's only running half throttle.

Rick

[BigBill]

I took a step back and looked the log splitter thing over again and in looking at the northern hydraulics catalog again they have larger two stage pumps with more gallons per minute which speeds up the cycle time during free movement while the ram is cycling the GPM is up in the 20's. The second stage is the same with GPM of 3,000psi during the splitting. I had the 13GPM two stage pump and the 26 GPM larger pump would speed up the splitting time by 2 thats awesome. There's a lot to consider when building a splitter. Then there is the size of the cylinder and the steel beam too. I had a 3 1/2" cylinder on a 6" I beam with a 13gpm two stage pump and a 8hp briggs. The beam finally was wornout after 20+ years of abuse. The motor, cylinder and pump out lasted the beam. It was built better than the store bought ones and out lasted those by far.

My plan as of now is to use my 55 cj5 PTO (45hp) and the 26 GPM two stage pump with a 75lbs per foot I beam with a 5" bore cylinder. I believe building a log splitter to the max would last forever.

You guys here got me thinking when you say your engine is near ilde when your splitting. I believe the 26GPM pump will let me do just that with the 45hp jeep engine. Even if i match the 13gpm pump @ 3,600rpm
cycle timing
i might have less gas consumption and noise at the lower rpm.

I have found out in the past some of this wood can be tough to split and bigger would be better if were building one. Its just something to think about when designing one if your not on a tight budget. I may hold off right now from building one because my budget is tight but i may rent one for this years wood. I just don't want to skimp on building a new one just to have one.

Another thing to consider is moving it around too. My last splitter was small but still a bear to move and i had 15" rims with car tires on it. My plan was to mount it on my jeep tractor in the shotgun seat position so it folds up when not in use thus i can drive my jeep tractor and move it to where its needed. And folded up i can still plow snow with it too. I'm getting old and need things easy to move around too.