Snow Blower project (UPDATED PICS)

[Rick Prentice]

Cubs are far too fast in low gear and/or lack sufficient power (and live PTO) to run a snowblower

This is the reason for my doing this project. I want to find out for myself if the talk about the Cub being to fast is really true. I plan to do exactly as Rudi stated

I have always believed that whatever was used would have to have an independant power source separate from the Cub, one where the actual speed of the augers and impellers would be much higher than can be developed from the Cubs PTO.. that way a creeper gear would not be needed.

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When this project is over, we'll know the truth, fact or fiction

This blower was set-up to run directly off the clutch operated, verticle shaft, engine pulley and should be capable of an easy 3450rpm's, more than what I plan to run it at.

Maybe with a pto operated set-up, power and speed is a problem, but we plan to overcome these little "hurdles"

I already found out that the old tale of the Cub not being big enough or powerful enough to do anything but pull a "Little Red Wagon" is nothing but "HOG WASH"

I'll keep everyone posted, stay tuned


Rick

[Lurker Carl]

You could drive the blower with a hydraulic motor and have the pump driven with the power take off

Hydraulics is a great idea, eliminate a driveshaft and bearings and joints. But that pump needs to be driven independantly of the Cub. Ground speed would be too high by the time the PTO is spinning the pump fast enough to spin the blower.

[beaconlight]

Lordy John with all that iron on the rear do you really need a second set of wheel weights? I would imagine they are from some other use and left on because that was the easiest thing to do.

Bill

[George Willer]

Cubs are far too fast in low gear and/or lack sufficient power (and live PTO) to run a snowblower

This is the reason for my doing this project. I want to find out for myself if the talk about the Cub being to fast is really true.

Rick,

The problem with the Cub being geared too fast would be true if the engine had to drive the PTO and also drive the tractor.

If we understand correctly how you are building it you are on the right track. The engine driving the blower can be run at a high power setting while the tractor speed is idled back or speeded up to whatever speed is required. A very good setup.

Back in the late '50s I built a mower using that principle. The driving engine could propel the mower at whatever speed the separate engine running the blade could keep up with.

[John *.?-!.* cub owner]

Lordy John with all that iron on the rear do you really need a second set of wheel weights? I would imagine they are from some other use and left on because that was the easiest thing to do.

Bill

The guy was form northern IA, and he siad the wheel weights were needed. the engine is not as heavy as it looks, it is a 2 cylinder Wisconsin, but has a lto of sheet metal surrounding it.

[Rudi]

I already found out that the old tale of the Cub not being big enough or powerful enough to do anything but pull a "Little Red Wagon" is nothing but "HOG WASH"
Rick

Rick:

That seems to be a common refrain.. "The Cub is too small to do that" . It is a refrain that Emilie's uncle Clorice constantly says.. almost like a mantra. But every time I put together a new project, or I am out plowing snow with Ellie, hauling wood, hauling the groomer.. (that one you gotta see Ellie tug very ), lifting the 6 foot outthrow disc harrow -- he is all eyes. Stands there in the living room window and watches, or by the side of the yard, lifts his hat, scratches his head, and YOU JUST KNOW what he is thinking... ... I loves it

So when he says the Cub is too small I always just say.. ... and carry on carrying on doing what I am doing with Ellie. Wait till he sees the Hydraulic Blade project...

Rick, if we can do this, it will really blow his socks off

[john2189]

You could drive the blower with a hydraulic motor and have the pump driven with the power take off

Hydraulics is a great idea, eliminate a driveshaft and bearings and joints. But that pump needs to be driven independantly of the Cub. Ground speed would be too high by the time the PTO is spinning the pump fast enough to spin the blower.

You could make a bracket for the hyd pump below the pto shaft and overdrive the pump with chain and sprockets, im not sure of the formulas to calculate the size of chain sprockets needed, but on second thought, you would lose power from the engine by doing this... nevermind

[Jack Donovan]

You would be surprised at the little HP it takes to run a HDYC motor. The hard part would be figuring out if you needed a speed motor or a power motor , and then you could always go to a 2stage motor I think a 10 or 12 hp would do the trick, However, then you have the tractor speed to deal with" Maybe smaller rear tires will reduce the speed enough? Just thoughts to think about"" LOL

[BigBill]

How fast is the auger to the inside impeller speed on the 2 stage blower you have? Whats the gear ratio?

I was at a gravely dealer once were I purchased all my restoring parts for many years. Gravely made two different ratio snow blowers, one was a 4 to 1 and the other was a 1 to 10 ratio. They told me that a 1 to 4 would never do the job correctly. Thats one turn of the front auger while the two stage fan inside turns 10 times. I took a 1 to 4 snowblower attachment that was in great shape and put it on an "L" which was 7,5 HP. We had a wet snow fall and it kind of turned into about 3 to 4" of wet slush. That gravely with the 4 to 1 was throwing slush over the tops of the telephone poles. My neighbors couldn't believe it either, it was awesome to watch. Another time we had about 3' to 4' of snow with big drifts and I drove the gravely right into a 4'+ drift and all we seen was the two handle grips sticking out and the blower chute pumping the snow out non stop. My point is its not the HP that matters its all about the gearing plus i never listen to advise sometimes I have to prove it to myself when they say it can't be done.(dealers) I just think she wanted to sell me a new 10 to 1 snowblower attachment.

[Lurker Carl]

The Gravely blowers are snow cannons. The newer style blower was designed for the higher horsepower models, they came out with much wider snowblowers and needed the 10:1 ratio to move the additional snow.

[George Willer]

How fast is the auger to the inside impeller speed on the 2 stage blower you have? Whats the gear ratio?

I was at a gravely dealer once were I purchased all my restoring parts for many years. Gravely made two different ratio snow blowers, one was a 4 to 1 and the other was a 1 to 10 ratio. They told me that a 1 to 4 would never do the job correctly. Thats one turn of the front auger while the two stage fan inside turns 10 times. I took a 1 to 4 snowblower attachment that was in great shape and put it on an "L" which was 7,5 HP. We had a wet snow fall and it kind of turned into about 3 to 4" of wet slush. That gravely with the 4 to 1 was throwing slush over the tops of the telephone poles. My neighbors couldn't believe it either, it was awesome to watch. Another time we had about 3' to 4' of snow with big drifts and I drove the gravely right into a 4'+ drift and all we seen was the two handle grips sticking out and the blower chute pumping the snow out non stop. My point is its not the HP that matters its all about the gearing plus i never listen to advise sometimes I have to prove it to myself when they say it can't be done.(dealers) I just think she wanted to sell me a new 10 to 1 snowblower attachment.

Bill,

What everyone here seems to be missing is that when the Cub's engine is developing its' rated power the slowest gear makes the tractor travel 2.4 MPH. WAY TOO FAST!

How deep of snow could the Gravely plow at 2 MPH?

Messing with hydraulic pumps and jackshafts to use the Cub's engine is an exercise in folly. It requires a separate engine to run the blower... or a seriously expensive lower gear for the tractor to do any major snow work.

Rick's already on the right track.

[Lurker Carl]

I agree, the blower needs a seperate engine. Using a hydraulic pump and motor for power would be easier to set up and operate.

The L model Gravely with a 28 inch blower can't handle much snow at 2 mph unless it's a fresh, dry snow. It either has to be geared down with the L8 tranny or speed reducers, otherwise you feather it along as the blower catches up with the snow load.

[Buzzard Wing]

I don't have a lot of experience with snowblowers. I now have the newer model for my 'new' Gravley L8. It came with the sissor hands model that I understood to have trouble plugging up because of the ratio on the second stage. I did run the L8 with the old one a bit last winter and it is really something to see. Chains and dualies I think I am ready for most anything!? I was thinking I should have pulled the gauge wheels off the old one before I sold it.

My friend just bought a 154 with a McKee (?) brand snowblower on it. Pretty serious setup, but I haven't had a good look at it yet. I know a 154 has a different PTO arrangement, but don't know how it works.

I know whatever Rick does will work great, I am always impressed with his 'little' projects.

Larry

[junkman1946]

The MTD snowblower attachment comes in 42 and 48 in. widths its designed to run belt drive off a Vertical Shaft engine. The pulley on the blower is pretty close to the same size on the PTO (crankshaft). Engine speed governed at 3600 rpm. (most engines). Blower speed at pulley- close to that. Independent engine only practical option. If the blower is independently powered the ground speed of the tractor could be slowed down somewhat by lower tractor rpms. These obsevations are only from what ive seen come across my junkpile, not gospel. Both the above mentioned blowers came off Sears lawn and garden tractors approx 1990vintage Frank

[BigBill]

My old gravely model "L" with the old 26" open side blower was a beast it wouldn't stop or slow down for anything but without the extra low range i did fan the forward lever like fanning the clutch so i didn't bury it by going too fast. (oil bath clutches)I didn't want to over load it too. When i moved up to the gravely "L8" it improved with the same 26" blower. Not everyone knows the gravely is farm equipment too. It was used for tilling up small patches of farm land after the crop was harvested were the tractor was unable to get into the spot because of other crops. These are tough machines manufactured with heavy castiron castings. The rotary plow is awesome too i had a part time garden tilling business with my gravely too. My point is with the "L8" in low/low with the rotary plow it would churn the same spot twice when tilling it was that slow. So the ground speed to the attachment speed is very important.

Using a seperate engine with the correct gear ratio i'm sure will work but you may have to speed it up if the cubs ground speed is faster so the auger'blower speed has to be a lot faster so it will work. Having the correct ratio/speeds between the blower and tractor is the key to it working. I know the cub is too fast but the blower has to be even faster to keep up with the speed of the tractor.

I was thinking of getting a used snowblower attachment for my 154 but with my 100ft driveway it would be like being all dressed up with no where to go? With my jeep its all warmed up and ready to attack anything white and the driveway is already done. These machines make short work of anything we do. I can remember shoveling the driveway in the blizzard of 78 for 8 hours straight. The very next year i purchased a used gravely.