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Snow Blower project (UPDATED PICS)

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Rick Prentice
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Postby Rick Prentice » Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:08 am

Frank wrote:
The MTD snowblower attachment comes in 42 and 48 in. widths its designed to run belt drive off a Vertical Shaft engine. The pulley on the blower is pretty close to the same size on the PTO (crankshaft). Engine speed governed at 3600 rpm. (most engines). Blower speed at pulley- close to that. Independent engine only practical option. If the blower is independently powered the ground speed of the tractor could be slowed down somewhat by lower tractor rpms. These obsevations are only from what ive seen come across my junkpile, not gospel

You're right on, Frank.

I also marked the front auger and rotated the input shaft and this one is a 17.25/1 ratio, that's the blower spinning over 17 times to the front auger's 1.

This thing should throw something, somewhere, hopefully :D

Rick
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BigBill
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Postby BigBill » Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:27 am

A 17,25 to 1 should be ok, heck thats great. I would run the motor wide open i would gear it up so your a little under 3600 rpm so you will have some room for the govenor to work. The idea now is to have the engine speed, the blower rpm the correct ratio for the ground speed for the tractor thats the key now. If the blower cloggs up you need to increase its speed so it will remain free and pushing the snow. So a little reverse engineering maybe needed once its tested.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

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Rick Prentice
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Postby Rick Prentice » Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:47 am

OK, where's all our engineers at???

Let's figure this out on paper and see if it works, then we'll have the real thing and compare the two.

Facts:

1) the Cub goes 2mph(ballpark), in first gear, full throttle.
2) front auger spinning 1/17th of 3600rpm's (ballpark 208rpm's)


You finish the rest, I'm scratching my head already :D

I'm a "hands on" guy, not a "paperwork first" guy.

Rick
When I told my dad I've been misplacing things and doing stupid stuff----His reply---"It only gets better"

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Postby kinelbor » Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:16 am

What is the deepest snow storm you guys have gotten? When we got the "3 foota'" last year it took to people to blow the driveway out, one with a shovel to break it down in front and 1 driving the blower as slow as it would go pushing on it real hard. I think if you usually get 6-10 inches it will be just fine like that. 3600 RPM on the impeller would be pretty fast, I think you would want that cut down just a bit for more torque, but I could be wrong.
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Postby Rudi » Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:33 am

Rick:

I agree with Nik. As someone who has seen more than enough snow all over Canada.. and the different methods of moving said phenomenom... I have no doubts in my stubborn mind that the Cub can do this.

I know what Ellie is like in 1st throttled down to above idle.. more than sedate enough for an independantly powered blower to do it's job in deep snow. For lighter stuff -- 6" or less, 1st gear about 1/2 throttle should be enough. For heavier or very deep snow.. well a little creativity will be needed. If my Yardman 13hp/33" cut blower can handle just about everything Mother Nature throws at us here.. I have NO doubts that Ellie will be able to handle it. I just look at what she can plow and how deep.... with a blower it is only going to get easier. IT WILL WORK :!:

Even though I have my schooling as a draughtsman (architectural mostly), I do not look at numbers to tell me if something will work. Too many people have said -- Image - Won't Work over the years, and then somebody turns around and builds it and it works great, that I tend to go by my gut and what looks right. Works for me..

Also, I think Nik might have a bit of a point... 3600 is on the high side.. but boy.. talk about a rooster tail there :!: :!: :!: Image

As Em says -- Merry Christmas Eve Morning to y'all Image
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Postby junkman1946 » Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:58 am

Two thoughts here. You only need the tractor engine to propel you into the snow. Hence, low throttle. Once you make your first pass full width you can scale back the width of your cut to accomadate wheel speed-snow depth. :?: How about larger diameter tires? Would they make enough difference? Now your spending more money- Dumb Idea :oops: Idont like riding the clutch but it sounds like you might end up heading down that path.. Frank
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Postby BigBill » Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:33 pm

Just watching the blower throw snow over the tops of the telephone poles is a sight to see!!!!!!! You'll have everyone watching it.

The cubs have dry clutches so riding the clutch to slow it down isn't recommended. I would go with speeding up the blower speed from the blower drive motor to the blower this way you can gear it to the speed of the tractor.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

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Postby Bus Driver » Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:08 pm

Interesting and innovative. Here, we might have a snow about every 20 years that would effectively utilize a snowblower. Snowblowers are rarely seen here. For all the reasons stated, the independent power source is a virtual necessity.
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Postby Lurker Carl » Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:50 pm

Ground speed depends on whether the snow is dry or wet, fresh or aged, soft or icy, fluffy or packed AS WELL AS depth. I have used the Gravely to blast thru fresh, dry snow that was 18 inches deep at full speed. The same setup bogged down in 5 inches of icy slush when creeping down hill. I believe the blower should be operating at full speed no matter what the load is, stopping to clear a clogged chute is a PITA and throwing a huge plumb of snow is a beautiful thing.
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Postby Bus Driver » Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:21 am

The Danco setup placed the snowblower engine so that the weight is on the rear wheels- for improved traction- and the added weight to the front wheels is kept to an irreducible minimum. Front wheel weights should be removed for this use of the tractor. The 2.4 mph low gear speed does not sound so bad at first, but the Cub has little torque at low idle and the throttle must be opened some to do any work. Assuming 1800 full throttle RPM and 450 idle RPM, the Cub will have a minimum low gear speed of about .6 mph. One of my other tractors travels 1.5mph at full throttle low gear. But that is 2500 RPM and it idles about 700 rpm, which means a minimum speed of about .42 mph, about 42% slower than the Cub minimum. Threads such as this are valuable and thought-provoking.
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Postby Rudi » Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:09 am

Bus Driver wrote:The Danco setup placed the snowblower engine so that the weight is on the rear wheels- for improved traction- and the added weight to the front wheels is kept to an irreducible minimum. Front wheel weights should be removed for this use of the tractor. The 2.4 mph low gear speed does not sound so bad at first, but the Cub has little torque at low idle and the throttle must be opened some to do any work. Assuming 1800 full throttle RPM and 450 idle RPM, the Cub will have a minimum low gear speed of about .6 mph. One of my other tractors travels 1.5mph at full throttle low gear. But that is 2500 RPM and it idles about 700 rpm, which means a minimum speed of about .42 mph, about 42% slower than the Cub minimum. Threads such as this are valuable and thought-provoking.


Interesting points, and I can attest via Experience as to the validity of some of them. In my life I have been fortunate to live in many varied and mostly heavily snow covered areas of Canada and Europe and have watched/partaken in the oft repeated process of Snow Removal which is more aptly described as Snow Moving... as Removal is a bit of an oxy-moron at times... :roll: :!: :wink: :lol: :lol:

The Danco design point is definitely correct. And it is one that has been thought about a lot. Wheel weights and good chains will more than account for this.. and I can from experience plowing uphill on snow and ice attest to the need for weight.. provided it is correctly placed.

The point about removing the front weights.. -- NOT a good idea.. the front weights although theoretically would provide a dis-advantage, actually do the opposite and provide a bit more control in Slip&Slide conditions.. don't ask how.. I just know it does.. again experience -- and this is from plowing up and down hill.

Weight distribution is a known point in the Snow Country when plowing, and it is not equipment specific but a standard general requirement. Balance in all things.. :D

The theoretical/mathematical concern regarding the Cub's speed even at it's lowest setting is not a large concern for me. I have found that I need to rev up the engine to a comfortable RPM setting which is Entirely Dependant upon the specific snowfall/accumulation being moved. It almost differs every time... just as the snow conditions vary. The Cub is More Than Adequately Geared for plowing in 1st, and many times I am up to 2nd and 3rd.

For the Blower Application, I am using what I have watched and experienced for years with other equipment from Yard-Man 13hp Clutch Controlled self powered walk behinds, to Massey's to Hough's, to Dodge Rams and everything in between. The Cub's forward speed coupled with an INDEPENDANT Power Source for the Blowers will be more than adequate for the job.

The deciding factor as it always has been is -- who is getting the seat time :!: :wink: :D :D
Last edited by Rudi on Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby BigBill » Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:54 pm

This is why i said set the gear ratio on the blower/engine combination to the middle RPM of the engine which would be around 1,800/2,000rpm to the tractor speed. This would work for light snow and yet you would still have the higher rpm and more power available for the heavier deeper snow. If you max out the blower engine right away there's nothing left if you need more power there's no options left.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

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Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:17 pm

Rudi wrote: ....I have been fortunate to live in many varied and mostly heavily snow covered areas.....
your idea of fortunate and mine are not the same. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Bus Driver » Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:41 pm

"I have been fortunate to live-- ", John, this part is perfectly OK.
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Postby Rudi » Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:25 pm

John:

All depends on your point of view or frame of reference.

I tried for 2 years to live in Sunny Southern California, but I could not bear the thought of green Christmases, no snow, dust storms, wild grass fires burning hundreds of thousands of acres of beautiful country side, smog, icky feeling from sun tan lotion on my skin, and all that stuff.

In Baghdad it snowed for Christmas -- figures... :roll: :? :!: I would much prefer to have the snow here. Snow is wonderful, and it also gives meaning to the changing of the seasons. One looks forward to the beauty of each with anticipation half-way through each season. I look forward to snow as much as I look forward to sitting on my dock and trout fishing in the summer evenings..

No matter what.. all 4 seasons provide a good reason to be alive :!: :wink: :D Oh, and I thank the Lord for allowing me to see another Christmas.. that is the best thing.. just seeing Christmas.
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