Snow blower for a cub and plowing limitations

Farmall Cub Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your Cub related issues.

Moderator: Team Cub

Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.

Snow blower for a cub and plowing limitations

Postby Scott Blystone » Wed Feb 11, 2004 9:06 am

Overall I am pleased with the cubs plowing ability now that I have chains. However, since we are over 150 inches this winter and counting with almost no melt, the piles are too big and too hard for the cub to push back any longer. I can push snow to the sides of the gravel drive ~600' worth, but then must shovel the periphery to make room for the next snow. My rear wheels are set wide so there is a limit to how close to the drive edge I can get. That plow is just too short when angled. Not sure if extensions would harvest too wide a bite for the cub to push up grade. Soooo, I am thinking of a snowblower. I understand models made for the cub are hard to find. I was thinking of modifying some other belt driven blower. I can use the plow frame for support and lift and I have the drawbar pulleys from my flail mower to get a belt to the front end. Now I need to know some manufacturers that made blowers with a centered drive pulley. Anyone have ideas? Also RPM of average blower, width blower I should be looking for (I figure 48" would be right, probably 54" max), etc. Any ideas, potential problems, suggestions and info is appreciated. The cub is plow #2, my Willys jeep is plow 1 and usually does a fantastic job, but currently has a broken axle. Hope to make the cub a permanent plow rig - especially now that I know it can start and run effectively to -10F. Thanks.
Scott Blystone
 

Postby Bigdog » Wed Feb 11, 2004 9:21 am

Scott, my personal opinion is that the cub, without a gear reduction, is too fast (ground speed) for a pto driven blower. Unless you rig a blower that has it's own power source.
Bigdog
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

My wife says I don't listen to her. - - - - - - - - Or something like that!

http://www.cubtug.com
User avatar
Bigdog
Team Cub
Team Cub
 
Posts: 23814
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 12:50 pm
Location: OH, Stoutsville
Zip Code: 43154
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Postby Rudi » Wed Feb 11, 2004 9:48 am

Scott:

My father-in-law and I along with others more knowledgeable about Cubs and their limitations and abilities have been pondering this idea since last year.

We have come to the conclusion, similar to BD, that the only way a Cub can successfully handle a snowblower, is to mount a self powered unit. In otherwords - probably a 5 foot dual stage blower assembly, mated to an 8 or 10 hp B&S or better yet a Tecumseh Snow King motor.

It would have to be mounted to a frame that could be mounted to the front of the tractor. This would obviate the need to blow in reverse and would remove one of the main concerns which would be having the front lighter than the rear and probably causing a rearward flip while blowing downhill.

We are working on the design for one to see if it is even possible, and are hopeful. Based on the experience gained last year with an ill tuned Cub that was underpowered, and this year with a properly tuned Cub achieving relatively full power, the prognosis is very hopeful.

I know it probably won't be much help this year, but stay tuned, we are working on it. We get as much snow as that per year on average and maybe quite a bit more, so we face the same challenges.

One possible suggestion for the interim. Loaders are about $75.00/hour and can move a lot of snow in 1 hour. It may be advantageous this year to hire a loader to clear some room for you, so that the Cub can continue to do it's duty this year..... it is also cheaper than building a snowblower right away! Another suggestion would be to hire a neighbour or a contractor with a tractor and blower to clear some room also. They do a much neater job.

Hope this helps a bit.
Confusion breeds Discussion which breeds Knowledge which breeds Confidence which breeds Friendship

User avatar
Rudi
Team Cub
Team Cub
 
Posts: 28425
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 8:37 pm
Location: NB Dieppe, Canada
Zip Code: E1A7J3
eBay ID: ve9rhs
Skype Name: R.H. "Rudi" Saueracker, SSM
Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub "Granny"
1948 Cub "Ellie-Mae"
1951 Cub "Jethro"
Dad's Putt-Putt
IH 129 CC
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y
Twitter ID: Rudi Saueracker, SSM

Postby Scott Blystone » Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:08 am

I understand that a self powered unit could be attached to the front. That is expensive and requries two engines to start instead of one - never a sure thing in the ultra cold. If you are looking at designing something like that - take a look at the one made to mount on the front of Honda ATV's - it si about right for the cub - sadly it is also about $2000 US. I can buy a lot of throwaway trucks for that and use a blade.

I don't get the RPM argument. Faster means more snow moved. I can change pulley sizes to increase or decrease speed - just off the top of my head I should be able to go up or down by a factor of 4 easily. Too fast might shake the unit to pieces I guess and too slow might do nothing. Anyone know the RPM of a good sized unit? The facts are that usable units for cub and lo-boy were made by Danco and McKee - they were belt driven and front mount. If they can do we can do it.

I reread BD's post and see he means ground speed. I think it is like mowers - if everything is up to spec and sharp, a cub will run a BIG mower at good speed. If blades are dull, resistance is high and cub is not performing, then it won't cut at all. I think it would work, as evidenced by the ones for sale by other companies. Maybe I can drag a big log to reduce groundspeed!!!
Scott Blystone
 

Postby BOB K. » Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:55 am

Hi guys, I have a few pics of a Cub with the Danco snowblower on it. And just to let every one know the pics I have show that the Danco snowblower DID NOT run off the Cubs pto. It had its own engine that was mounted on the rear drawbar. So even back then they must have felt there wasn't enough power from the Cub to run a snowblower.
BOB K.
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
 
Posts: 337
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 10:34 pm
Location: Long Island, NY

Postby WKPoor » Wed Feb 11, 2004 12:29 pm

Something that hasn't got much attention here on this forum, and frankly I don't know anyone who has actually done this, is using gears from Supercub to change ground speed. I understand from the garden pullers that the hole transmission is being reproduced along with different ratio gears. I do know people who have installed Supercub gears in there pullers and since its the same tranny why not? I might call them some time to see how far you can go up or down. Food for thought.
WKPoor
 

Postby russ » Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:05 pm

As to PTO speed it should be 540rpm (industry standard).As to ground speed you need creeper gear. I run a rear 3point mount 52in. snow blower on my loboy 184. The set up is all trial and error. Cub and loboy pto run counter clockwise (industry standard is clockwise), so I bought a diretion changer gear box to mount on pto (hub city). That got the snowblower turning the correct diretion. The next problum was the speed of the pto at idle it is around 540 rpm ,at full throttle it is closer to 1700 rpm. At full speed it will shake the snowblower and tractor apart , and it does not have the torque needed to run at slower speed. I next bought a diretion changer/speed reducer (hub city). With that bolted in place it works fine. But I must run it in creeper gear, or it will overload the snowblower. Good Luck the gear boxes are hard to come by.
Russ
russ
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 5:02 pm
Location: Central Michigan

Postby Scott Blystone » Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:18 pm

OK - this is the kind of info I have been needing. I had been told the Danco unit was belt driven off the PTO.

Another alternative is a hydraulically driven unit. I know you can get hydraulic pumps that slip right over a PTO shaft. Does anyone know of a hydraulically driven snowblower made long ago enough to be inexpensive used? The only application i have seen of the right size is the ones made to go on a skid steer.

Hmmmmm......

Why would 1600 RPM shake a snowblower apart if it does not shake a flail mower apart?

Its a darn good thing I work full time and don't have a large discretionary income - I could be dangerous. Have I ever told you about the CUB-mounted trebuchet I built last year? me and the cub and a load of pumpkins will take all comers........
THanks guys for the insights.
Scott Blystone
 

Postby russ » Wed Feb 11, 2004 5:28 pm

A modern 3point mount snowblower is designed to run on tractors at 540rpm. The unit and drive shaft are not balanced to run at the higher speed.The loboy also needed the added torque that was obtained by gearing down the pto.You could also look into the IH Model #50 factory front mount unit for a loboy. They run belt drive to a jack shaft that runs to the front of tractor,the jackshaft runs a driveshaft to the snowblower. McKee also made a front mount for the loboy. If I could find a Mckee model #322 ,I would change to the front mount. Have been looking for a long time,and only found one unit at $1500.00 a little rich for me. I live in central michigan,lots of cubs, loboys and plenty of snow. You would think there would be lots avalible. Russ
russ
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 5:02 pm
Location: Central Michigan

Postby WKPoor » Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:18 pm

I saw several years ago a pic on the net showing a guy blowing snow somewhere in Canada with a standard Cub and front mount blower. It was powered from the PTO through a jack shaft that ran under the tractor. That way both speed and direction problem was overcome. I had a hairbrain idea at one time to buy a late model front mount blower that was shaft driven to adapt to my Cub. Its still just an idea! LOL As for hydraulic powed stuff, remember that it takes power to drive a pump also and the GPM and flow requirements that most hydraulic motors require would be well above the Cubs ability.
WKPoor
 

Postby Rudi » Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:46 pm

Bob:

Any chance you can post a copy of that pic/ad/brochure?
Confusion breeds Discussion which breeds Knowledge which breeds Confidence which breeds Friendship

User avatar
Rudi
Team Cub
Team Cub
 
Posts: 28425
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 8:37 pm
Location: NB Dieppe, Canada
Zip Code: E1A7J3
eBay ID: ve9rhs
Skype Name: R.H. "Rudi" Saueracker, SSM
Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub "Granny"
1948 Cub "Ellie-Mae"
1951 Cub "Jethro"
Dad's Putt-Putt
IH 129 CC
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y
Twitter ID: Rudi Saueracker, SSM

Snow Plowing with a Cub

Postby FarmallCubNJ » Wed Feb 11, 2004 9:29 pm

At some point you have to come to grips with the fact that a Cub is a 13 or so HP garden tractor. I have been able to plow up to 24" (not too heavy) snow by tying a barrel on the back of the cub and loading it with a couple of hundred pounds of scrap metal. This with the wheel weights and chains allowed me to handle the snow. But the other problem is that the blade itself and the lift of the hydraulic unit limits the height to which you can pile the snow. So if you are in snow country I would suggest you try to find a second hand Dodge Snow Commander or a used four wheel drive pick up with a plow to handle really serious snow.
FarmallCubNJ
 

Postby russ » Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:29 am

I mailed out a copy of model #50 snowblower manual for IH loboy,along with info on Hub City diretion changer/speed reducer to Rudi. Am sure he will post them as soon as he gets them. There are some very good pic's on how the jack shaft mounts under the tractor.A lot of good info for someone trying to set up a unit.I have thought of remounting my 3point to the front blade lift,and building the jack shaft setup to power it. I hate backing up all the time,but it is better then a shovel. Russ
russ
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 5:02 pm
Location: Central Michigan

Postby Weav27 » Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:19 am

Just want to start by saying that it isn't a bad idea and one my dad and I have pondered for some time. Had a great blower but wasn't wide enough to cover the width of the rear tires. We felt even with a set wings on that it would be too much snow for the cub to throw unless we only took half a swath at a time. Then the setup needed to switch belt direction, with adjustability, and power reduction could be done, but with such a setup that it would prevent easy removal after the snow season. Well we sat around the shop a while and kept on brainstormin on how to make er work w/o another engine and a clumsy setup hanging off the front of the cub. We could not do it for a modest price and have an excellent end product.

The blower idea wasn't a total loss, we dropped that heavy blower on the Hydrostat Cub Cadet. Loads of throttle and speed isn't a problem. Of course some serious weight had to be added for lack of tire size. Maybe we should have put a hydrostat in the Farmall or used a double pulley on the fan for a drive. :wink: And really for the $$ to make that set up work we could have bought our Super M or H with the bucket set up we use. I am not trying to knock any ideas and would love to hear or better yet see how someone came up with a good configuration as we could not.

Good Luck and keep us posted.
Working on tractors is a true test of one's ability to balance patience and temper.
Weav27
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:31 pm
Location: Woodbury, PA

Postby George Willer » Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:09 am

Weav27,

I think your final solution was the best one. The M probably likes snow.

Your ideas to modify the Cub were good too, if $$$ weren't any object. A slower gear would be necessary, and hydrostatic ahead of the transmission would be ideal if hardware could be found to work with.

Naturally, the power for the blower would have to come off the front of the engine. An electric clutch might be the answer for that. I've seen mowers run that way. The clutches were heavier duty than an A/C clutch.

Your plan would allow very slow forward speed while keeping the engine speed very high to develop enough power for the blower.
George Willer
http://gwill.net

The most affectionate creature in the world is a wet dog. Ambrose Bierce
User avatar
George Willer
Cub Pro
Cub Pro
 
Posts: 7011
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 9:36 pm
Location: OHIO, Fremont
Zip Code: 43420
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Next

Return to Farmall Cub

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Billy Fussell, Dale Finch, FCub S. E. Tn, Fryerszoo and 7 guests