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Need help on rear axle problem.
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- 10+ Years
Need help on rear axle problem.
I am finally getting around to putting our 49 Cub back together after having been apart for 2 years. On the rear axle housing, I replaced everything. Housing, axle shafts, diff. shafts, bearings, seals, etc.
I started putting the left axle in the housing according to the service manual. Pressed the bearings on the shaft till they came to the shaft shoulder, pressed the bearing cups to the shoulder, and put the spacers where they need to go. When I check for bearing preload, their is none. In fact the entire shaft still moves back and forth about 1/16" of an inch. I do not have any small shims in place as the book states.
Questions I have are: 1) The bearing cups do need to be pressed in to the bottom, correct?
2) Must I shorten the large shaft spacer some?
Any comments are welcome. Thanks.
I started putting the left axle in the housing according to the service manual. Pressed the bearings on the shaft till they came to the shaft shoulder, pressed the bearing cups to the shoulder, and put the spacers where they need to go. When I check for bearing preload, their is none. In fact the entire shaft still moves back and forth about 1/16" of an inch. I do not have any small shims in place as the book states.
Questions I have are: 1) The bearing cups do need to be pressed in to the bottom, correct?
2) Must I shorten the large shaft spacer some?
Any comments are welcome. Thanks.
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 167
- Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 2:24 pm
- Location: Pima, Az.
To answer a few questions, yes all the bearing cups are bottomed against the shoulders. It sounds like you might have a spacer or shims missing since you mention about 1/16" movement with the axle. Reading your post again you mention you have the spacer but not the shims. You need them. I'm not sure if all dealers would have them in stock or not. Maybe Bermuda Ken will jump in if he has some. Worst case scenario would be to make your own shims. If you need to go this route we will tell you how. I wouldn't alter the spacer.
Michael
Michael
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- 10+ Years
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Jeff,
Michael is correct; you’ll need the shims to get the specs correct. I’ve seen those types of shims in hardware stores.
I’ve had a few of those final drives apart and never had one be within specs as far as end play. I guess the final drive turns so slow the factory never was concerned about the proper clearance.
I’m driving one now that has more than 1/8â€. It’s been like that for 50 years.
Jack Fowler
Michael is correct; you’ll need the shims to get the specs correct. I’ve seen those types of shims in hardware stores.
I’ve had a few of those final drives apart and never had one be within specs as far as end play. I guess the final drive turns so slow the factory never was concerned about the proper clearance.
I’m driving one now that has more than 1/8â€. It’s been like that for 50 years.
Jack Fowler
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 565
- Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:35 am
- Location: Morristown, New Jersey
final drive shims
Sounds like something is wrong in your assembly other than the shims. My understanding is that adding shims reduces preload. When I rebuilt my final drives last summer I had to remove shims to increase preload upon reassembly with new seals and the original bearings, presumably to compensate for bearing wear. If you have that much slack without any shims, adding them will only make things more "loose". Do you have the tapered spacer going in the correct direction?
Also, all the shim sizes were readily available at the local Case dealer.
Also, all the shim sizes were readily available at the local Case dealer.
51 Cub; IH 340 Utility; IH 240 Utility http://public.fotki.com/PWS/
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 167
- Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 2:24 pm
- Location: Pima, Az.
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 908
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Yes the more shims the more preload. The shims are under the inside bearing. This is a link to Rudi’s site.
http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/I&T%20IH-50%20Shop%20Manuals/IH-50%20Condensed/Page%2040.jpg
Jack Fowler
http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/I&T%20IH-50%20Shop%20Manuals/IH-50%20Condensed/Page%2040.jpg
Jack Fowler
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 565
- Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:35 am
- Location: Morristown, New Jersey
preload vs shims
I may be all wrong on this, but I thought the other way around. And I thought this is what I saw after pressing the axles in and out of the final drives more times than I care to remember last summer, trying to get the correct shim spacing/preload after my rebuild.
Using the numbers from the Parts Book, I figured since the outer bearings(17/19), Spacer (20), gear, and Inner spacer (22) are all up solid against the axle, and the Inner Cup (25) is held by the drive housing, the shims set how deep the Inner Bearing (23) can set into the Inner Cup (25) as you crank down on the Axle Nut. That is, the shims hold the Inner Bearing out of the Cup a bit. Adding shim increases the spacing between the two. The preload or bearing drag is how tight the bearing is set. The tighter the bearing, the greater the preload.
My experience was that I kept adding shims in an attempt to get the required preload, and it went the other way. I actaully went so far as to put all of the shims from both drives into one side. I was getting nowhere adding shims. It wasn't until I actually took all of the shims out that I could get near the preload the manual called for.
Of course it was a hot summer and maybe all that cleaning solvent dulled my senses. . . .
Using the numbers from the Parts Book, I figured since the outer bearings(17/19), Spacer (20), gear, and Inner spacer (22) are all up solid against the axle, and the Inner Cup (25) is held by the drive housing, the shims set how deep the Inner Bearing (23) can set into the Inner Cup (25) as you crank down on the Axle Nut. That is, the shims hold the Inner Bearing out of the Cup a bit. Adding shim increases the spacing between the two. The preload or bearing drag is how tight the bearing is set. The tighter the bearing, the greater the preload.
My experience was that I kept adding shims in an attempt to get the required preload, and it went the other way. I actaully went so far as to put all of the shims from both drives into one side. I was getting nowhere adding shims. It wasn't until I actually took all of the shims out that I could get near the preload the manual called for.
Of course it was a hot summer and maybe all that cleaning solvent dulled my senses. . . .
51 Cub; IH 340 Utility; IH 240 Utility http://public.fotki.com/PWS/
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- 10+ Years
Paul, you ask if I have the tapered shim washer in the right direction. I have it in with the taper facing the bearing cone. This is correct?
Also, I to was under the impression that the more shims you add the less preload you have. Right now I have no (thin) shims in.
Thanks everyone for your comments.
Also, I to was under the impression that the more shims you add the less preload you have. Right now I have no (thin) shims in.
Thanks everyone for your comments.
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 167
- Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 2:24 pm
- Location: Pima, Az.
After looking in the manual, I do believe Paul is right. My brain is getting too old to try and remember this stuff anymore. Now for Jeff's problem. If you don't have any shims in place and there is still lateral movement of the axle, it would appear to me the new bearings would have to be out of tolerence, or some other problem. But 1/16" would be off the chart! If you put in new bearings, check the width of the old inner races against the new races. You may not have mic's or a caliper, so use an adjustable wrench. Put the width of the race in the jaws of the wrench and adjust wrench so you can just feel a drag when you pull on the race. Remove the race and see how the other race "feels". Should be the same. Something is wrong and it would be nice to find it. If you can't find anything wrong, then the spacer could be shortened the amount the axle is moving + .015 or .020 so you can use shims to get the preload. Spacer can be shortened with a lathe, milling machine or surface grinder. If you have a micrometer, you could do it at home with a file, just be sure to keep end of spacer square.
Michael
Michael
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- EZ
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67 International Cub Loboy
57 Farmall 130 - Location: Northern Ontario
I now have this problem
Today I replaced the left axle oil seal, diff. oil seal, and some gaskets on the final drive. I ended up with too much pre-load, about 45 in/lbs., plus the bull gear has some side to side slop. The axle is nice and snug, but I think I will need to add a shim(s) to get the required pre-load of 10-20 in/lbs. The side to side slop is only about a 1/32" but is noisy.
I'm wondering how Jeff made out. Seems like he could get no pre-load and may have had to shorten the spacer some. I see in the parts manual, that there are about 4 sizes of shims available. I'll either try to make some or get from IH. Anybody else working on one of these lately?
I'm wondering how Jeff made out. Seems like he could get no pre-load and may have had to shorten the spacer some. I see in the parts manual, that there are about 4 sizes of shims available. I'll either try to make some or get from IH. Anybody else working on one of these lately?
Just Do It !
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- 10+ Years
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- Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 10:05 pm
- Location: MS, Oxford
Gentlemen,
I have re-consulted my parts and service manual. Ibelieve I have this one figured out. What it appears to me is that you have two angled
surfaces fitting one inside the other. This would be the cone bearing and the angled surface of the bearing retainer. Now, with that said, the farther
apart you have the two surfaces the less friction you have on them
hince preload. The "shims" that I see in the parts manual is what pushes
or "retains" those two angled surfaces apart. Thus, the more "shims" the
farther apart the two surfaces.
If I am wrong on this please use a Woods deck mower belt on me. I can
be hardheaded at times.
I have re-consulted my parts and service manual. Ibelieve I have this one figured out. What it appears to me is that you have two angled
surfaces fitting one inside the other. This would be the cone bearing and the angled surface of the bearing retainer. Now, with that said, the farther
apart you have the two surfaces the less friction you have on them
hince preload. The "shims" that I see in the parts manual is what pushes
or "retains" those two angled surfaces apart. Thus, the more "shims" the
farther apart the two surfaces.
If I am wrong on this please use a Woods deck mower belt on me. I can
be hardheaded at times.
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:26 am
- Location: Keota, Oklahoma
Rear Axle preload
Gentlemen, I'm new to the forum. I am using the reply function hoping several or all of you who were posting on this ( one year old topic) may see this and help me get going on my axle assembly. I'm not in a big hurry as I'm still procuring parts. My first question is: Does the large gear , 70 teeth, I think, get squeezed or does it float with looseness? After I hear back from someone I will post additional information about the things I found on disassembly. Thanks, Lewis Bishop in Keota, OK
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1948 FCub 16109 "Lizzie"
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Cub-54A Leveling & Grader Blade
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Re: Need help on rear axle problem.
Putting my final drive together and was reading this discussion but I must have missed the answer to this question: "Paul, you ask if I have the tapered shim washer in the right direction. I have it in with the taper facing the bearing cone. This is correct?"
Is that correct? taper facing the bearing cone.?
Is that correct? taper facing the bearing cone.?
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