Electrical test equipment

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Re: Electrical test equipment

Postby Rudi » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:51 am

Me too Larry..

But you made an excellent point.... and one that was clear as to why pics help and it reinforces the message. I knew you knew cause you shoot a lot :!: :lol: :lol: I figured you could handle the pressure :roll: :D
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Re: Electrical test equipment

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:23 am

Buzzard Wing wrote:Sorry Rudi, but I understood it all... :)
I tend to use a little digital meter, but a test light is easier to work with and cheaper.
Thanks EJP!
I also have and use a digital voltmeter for somethings, but if you work on a generator circuit I suggest an analog one. If you connect close to the generator, the brush arcs create enough electrical noise to make most digital voltmeters very inaccurate.

Rudi wrote:EJ: could you elaborate with pics etc... remember KISS for us challenged types ok?
I can do a pictorial of using test light for headlights, and using spark tester on magneto, but I do not own a distributor, except for the one on my truck, which is an electronic ignition. :lol:

What may be better, is if someone would add test points to a wiring diagram, both for early and late wiring, then the points could be added to a more detailed write up.
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Re: Electrical test equipment

Postby Rudi » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:30 am

EJ:

Excellent.. and I agree. I actually own a couple old VOM's from back in the day when radios used vacumm tubes... Yes, I collect old Ham Radio and HF Intercept Gear... :big say what:

So, a How To on the VOM's would be useful for checking the Genny and Cutouts. Since I have all mags.. :big smile: this is good for me... hopefully BD or other's with Distributors with 6 or 12 volt will do up the same.

This is the kind of stuff that we really need. For many it is basic, but for a lot of us, it is still Greek :!: :D
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Re: Electrical test equipment

Postby beaconlight » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:38 am

For lights not working as Clem and Cowboy can tell you I just use a piece of wire with a clip to connect it to the battery. Scratch it against the shell of the light. If there is a good spark the ground is good. If not clean and refasten everything including the ground strap of the battery. Once you can draw a spark put wire against the other side of the bulb. If this doesn't light it, remove the bulb and clean and lightly grease the socket to prevent future corrosion. Replace bulb and retest for corroded sockets are more common than bad bulbs in my experience. Still no light change bulb. Next trace wiring back looking for twisted splices. People don't solder spices very often and corrosion will not permit sufficient current flow to light a light. There are times you migh read 12 volts each side of the splice but a light will not light because of the resistance in the splice you do not get enough current flow. I test with battery because If I used ground and was on the supply side I would blow a fuse.
I used to shoot light troubles on trailers for a trucking company. Remove clean, grease all screw connections as well as sockets. Open clean and solder all splices. Never had one come back except for burned out bulbs or a driver tried tree trimming . Well maybe I shouldn't say that for there were some marker light connections used hollow brass rivets as a connection. I usually replaced those or In a few cases soldered the rivet to the brass connecting strip.
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Re: Electrical test equipment

Postby Larry Barb Dotson » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:55 am

I also find a dwell meter to be a great help. I can't tell you how many times I have had someone insist that they had correctly set the points yet when checked with a dwell meter, was found to be well off the correct setting. Due to the difficulty with accurately setting points by feeler gauge on the Cub, the dwell meter will confirm when you have them right.

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Re: Electrical test equipment

Postby flyawa » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:11 pm

BTW what is the correct dwell angle on the cub?
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Re: Electrical test equipment

Postby Eugene » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:02 pm

What is the correct dwell angle on the cub?
If one has been published, please site the reference. References only state setting the Cub's points gap a .020.

Checking automotive tune up charts from earlier years for 4 cylinder engines with a points gap of .020.
Kaiser Jeep = 42 degrees.
Chev Luv truck = 52.
Colt = 52.
Datsun = 52, 50, 53, & 64.
Subaru = 52.
Simca = 55, & 56.
Vauxhall = 36
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Re: Electrical test equipment

Postby Larry Barb Dotson » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:21 am

Rick Prentice sent me a copy from one page that listed the point dwell for either the IH or prestolite dist at 66 to 72 degrees. My page does not have the manual description. This page does list the model and number, rotation, governor spring package, and degrees of spark advance at various engine speeds.

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Re: Electrical test equipment

Postby RockClimb » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:55 am

John *.?-!.* cub owner wrote:Having been an electronics technician for 40+ years I have quite a bit of electrical digital, test equipment, including analog, digital, and precision digital voltmeters. I also load testers for batteries, clamp on ac and dc amp meters that allow testing current flow without interrupting circuits, even a frequency counter (real handy for adjusting AC power generators).


John, I was just wondering. Have you ever hooked the frequency counter to the low voltage side of a cub coil? My meter has a frequency counter on it and I thought that might be a good way to adjust the governor.
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Re: Electrical test equipment

Postby Bus Driver » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:45 am

It is very easy to go overboard with testing equipment. This item at the link would be overkill for a cub.
http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool-wa ... MIS-200PRO
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Re: Electrical test equipment

Postby flyawa » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:20 am

Bus Driver wrote:It is very easy to go overboard with testing equipment. This item at the link would be overkill for a cub.
http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool-wa ... MIS-200PRO


That tool is one that is primarily used by unscrupulous shops to scam their customers. They even allude to it in the ad. There are lots of ways to hook it up to get a reading that can be shown to the customer as a severe problem. Then the "failed" part can be "replaced" without even turning a wrench.

My former secretary had that happen to her and they came up with over $1800 in "needed" repairs and then could not "find" the parts they had taken out including the fuel pump which she paid for. (she did stop the check). The only way to take the fuel pump out was to take off the fuel tank. The "work" was completed in a couple of hours and when we checked it the dirt was still in all the threads of everything they "did". She asked me to go with her to confront them. She figured the car was only worth $500.00. She had not approved the repairs. They denied everything, so we simply left the car there and filed a civil action against them. She ended up winning a $1000.00 judgment against them. They tried to then charge storage for the time they had the car. The local sheriff retrieved the car for her. The hassle of it all was not worth the $1000.00 but we did prove the point.

Particularly in larger cities there are shops that specialize in that type of work. I've had shops pull off a spark plug wire and then wanted to replace the "faulty" distributor. When I looked at the engine and saw the loose wire, I reached in and put it back on the plug and then asked if I could borrow a screw driver. When he handed it to me I drove away. As he yelled at me I replied "You're the one who got screwed this time". Not really proud of that response, as I was taught two wrongs don't make a right but at the moment I was too unhappy to think clearly.

I was wearing a suit and tie at the time and I think he thought he was dealing with a yuppy no nothing.
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Re: Electrical test equipment

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:26 am

As to unscrupulous use of the Midtronix tester, that can be done with anything. I have used the earlier models, and we also had them for telco batteries at work, and they are good testers, but you have to know how to use them. not just a throw it on and turn on a switch type unit.

I have though about connecting the frequency counter to the point side of a coil, but there are high voltage spikes present at that point sometimes, and I did not want to damage my meter, even though it is a cheapy.
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Re: Electrical test equipment

Postby Eugene » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:48 pm

Rick Prentice sent me a copy from one page that listed the point dwell for either the IH or prestolite dist at 66 to 72 degrees.
Most american made V-8's set the dwell at 30 degrees. Some makes a bit less or a bit more than 30 degrees. Without some definitive IH reference, I would say/guess that 60 degrees dwell +/- a couple would be in the ballpark for the 4 cylinder Cub engine.

I base the 60 degrees of dwell guess on 2/3's of 90 degrees. 90 degrees = 1/4th of 360 degrees. 66 to 72 degrees of dwell would set the point gap a bit narrower than the gap at 60 degrees.

This is probably one of those types of oil or gasoline discussion issues.
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Re: Electrical test equipment

Postby Buzzard Wing » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:01 pm

I bought a little digital multimeter a few years ago. A good friend gave me a hard time for not buying a Fluke (which I used professionally years ago) but you can't tell him anything. It pretty well meets most any need and is compact and self contained, bangs around in my tool box and still works so I guess it passes the Buzzard test.

The things I find useful about it: auto ranging (put it on DC volts and connect the leads, one to ground and one to the thing you are checking for voltage), it beeps for continuity (an 'electrical' connection between two points, real useful for figuring out which wire is which when somebody wired the Cub will all red wire for example. Also works to test a fuse that can look good but isn't). I have used it for trailer lights (always a problem, or is it just me) and often on the Cubs, especially when I was figuring out the short on that rusty Lo Boy. It is smaller than a deck of cards.

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Re: Electrical test equipment

Postby RockClimb » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:50 am

John *.?-!.* cub owner wrote:I have though about connecting the frequency counter to the point side of a coil, but there are high voltage spikes present at that point sometimes, and I did not want to damage my meter, even though it is a cheapy.


John,

I thought the point side of the coil was low voltage? Or is it coming from the field collapse on the coil?
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