up all night from,,i should know better

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Re: up all night from,,i should know better

Postby Steve Butram » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:56 pm

This post is bothering me. How many times has it been posted on this forum that you must use a supplied air respirator when you spray with Hardener. Have any of you guys ever read the warning labels on the side of the cans of hardener?
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Re: up all night from,,i should know better

Postby awander » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:07 pm

I think a lot of folks tend to pooh-pooh the safety warnings on packages and cans. And not because we're stupid-but because there are SO MANY safety warnings, and a lot of them are just stupid warnings!

Like the ones that tell you not to put your hand underneath a mower-I am pretty safetry conscious, but I think that an unintended result of the "put a warning on everything" policy that seems to be the standard nowadays, is that a lot of warnings that ARE important may get ignored.

I know I have read teh catalyst/hardener warnings many times, and I did take them seriously, but a message like this one from Jim makes me REALLY pay attention.

Jim, I hope you are doing ok, and thanks for posting about your troubles.
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Re: up all night from,,i should know better

Postby dakcub » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:16 pm

WOW what a frightening thread....you guys said painting your own tractor would be something to be proud of. I have seen the warnings on here....and I must say I will get mine ready for paint but it will go to the pro's.
Robert (won't go beyond rattle can) Miller

OBTW glad your feeling better.
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Re: up all night from,,i should know better

Postby Eikel » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:54 pm

Jim,
Glad to hear you're still with us and hopefully you'll not have any lasting effect. We've all pushed the safety element in one area or another, sorry you had to service as a warning to the rest of us.

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Re: up all night from,,i should know better

Postby Rick Spivey » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:10 pm

SteveB's post made me go back and read the can. Not to minimize, it clearly sounds like something you don't want to play around with. However, this particular hardener states that a "positive air supplied mask" is needed if significant overspray is going to be in the area, as in "hanging around". Otherwise, where ventilated, it does state that a properly fitted particulate respirator is effective where adequate ventilation is present.

After Jim's encounter, I think I will err on the side that a positive ventilation system is needed any time you are using this stuff. Better safe than sorry, for sure. In today's litigious society, where lawsuits reign, in my line of work we deal with chemicals that are nowhere near as bad as the labels and MSDS sheets make them sound, so I may be a little callous toward these warnings, knowing that they are only partly there to warn the user. They are mostly there for the corporate lawyers. However, this might be a case where you should believe what you read, and then some.....
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Re: up all night from,,i should know better

Postby Don McCombs » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:15 pm

The bottom line is...if you can smell the isocyanate, you're being impacted.
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Re: up all night from,,i should know better

Postby JGtools » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:58 pm

Well guys ill take one for the team here. I thought i got by ok before painting with hardener, but no more for me. Don, i understand why you are irritated with me, I flat out ignored the warnings. I got by painting with hardener before, but on this past Sunday when i painted,I had to keep shop door all the way shut,because of the cold and windy conditions here in Minnesota. im now positive that i had not enough ventilation, and along with the wrong type of respirator, I was setting myself up for a 7ft deep hole. I posted message, because I thought others might take percautions too lightly,as I did. Lessons learned and 2nd chances is a thin line, and im not walking on thin Ice again. Thanks everyone, stay healthy and safe! I think the message is clear. JimG
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Re: up all night from,,i should know better

Postby Ronny Bailey » Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:07 pm

I can barely paint with a spray can, so this hardener stuff is out of my league. Pretty scary.
Think I'll stick with the cans.
I think Andy's right about all the safety warnings, though.
Many are borderline insulting and I often don't bother reading them.
It's too bad since the important ones can go unread.

I don't remember reading previous posts about the respirator/hardener problem, but I haven't been here too long.
Could be I just didn't read the threads, though, since I'm not into painting.

Jim, thank you for letting us know, and I sure hope you feel back to normal before long!
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Re: up all night from,,i should know better

Postby Bill E Bob » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:55 am

Luckily, I joined the forum early enough to hear from Mr Willer about isocyanates, so the paint, hardener,
reducer and tins will be going to a pro. He paints the tins, I give him money--we're both happy and SAFE!

JG--sincerely hope and pray there are no lasting effects from your encounter.

Bill

PS I will paint the castings WITHOUT hardener.
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Re: up all night from,,i should know better

Postby rickguns » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:35 am

Thanks for sharing your story, I'm sure this has been a good refresher course in what not to do!
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Re: up all night from,,i should know better

Postby evielboweviel » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:13 am

something else to remember is the cub was factory painted with paint that did not have a hardner added to it
SO if a factory finish is desired then get the paint at the IH dealer and paint away with normal precautions
HOWEVER if you must have an automotive finish then use the proper equipment or send it out

You can duplicate the factory finish without any of the problems associated with the newer paints with hardner in them
The factory finish was not clear coated either

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Re: up all night from,,i should know better

Postby Don McCombs » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:45 pm

Jim,

My comments were done out of concern, not irritation. I hope everything works out for the best.
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Re: up all night from,,i should know better

Postby bob in CT » Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:46 pm

Don McCombs wrote:The bottom line is...if you can smell the isocyanate, you're being impacted.


Even though this is an old thread, it is an important lesson. Some may try to time the use of their cartridges or figure their ventilation is good enough to use cartridges. Just because it says on the can that cartridges can't be used unless there is adequate ventilation, don't risk it. Remember that advice is for a pro that SHOULD have a $40,000 downdraft spray booth! We are not talking about a couple of window fans blocked in the door.... Use a fresh air respirator only or send it out. You an get set up for about $5-600 for a light duty unit. ALWAYS use a cartridge mask when mixing and don't allow one drop of this stuff to touch your skin! You can absorb this right through your skin so use a suit and chemical resistant NITRILE gloves (the blue ones). DISCARD your cartridges every day!


ALSO: I will add one thing on cartridges: The isocyanates have no odor. If you can smell the solvents, you are in BIG trouble as the absorption capacity of the iso's in a cartridge maxs out well before the solvents do. Meaning you are breathing hardener for a LONG time before you begin to get a whiff of solvent!
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