Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:34 pm
Not just another serial number question! Please don't hang up!
Trying to find out the range of authentic, genuine, bonafide Circle Cubs.
Dig into your collective memory and lets try to arrive at a range.
Thanks all, I am working on something and need your help.Screwstick 501-3523
Last edited by Gary Boutwell on Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:38 pm
Gary, Trent's database lists SN-3523 as having the original Circle Cub decals. I would be inclined to believe that they went up a bit higher, but don't have evidance of such. So at least 3523.
Does this help?
Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:01 pm
And 4632 has original decals and is not a Circle Cub. So the change was somewhere between 3523 and 4632. The only way to narrow it down further is to find tractors in this range with original decals. Everyone be on the lookout!!
Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:33 pm
Anyway to define the limits via production dates?
Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:49 pm
Gary Boutwell wrote:Anyway to define the limits via production dates?
No. There have been many discussions where we were trying to "nail something down." Do a search and you will see all sorts of ideas, calculations, etc. The best and closest info, by far, is what is in the Database, in my opinion. We have narrowed down the range of Circle Cubs, as well as other unknown changes, quite a bit, compared to what was previously available.
Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:04 pm
Gary, I can't speak for everyone here, but I feel safe to say that the numbers have been crunched in every possible way, but there is just not enough information to go by to acurately pinpoint the exact number of circle cubs. There are just too many unknowns to come close. Same for the demo Cubs. As Trent said, the only tried and true way is to find all the cubs we can to evaulate, weither it be decals or white paint, the search is still the same.
With that being said, I will make another plug for the Database. If any of the new members are not aware, the database that Trent put together is an invaluable tool for decyphering Cubs. But, as you can see, it is only as good as the information that we all contribute. If you haven't already, please take the time to write down all the information you can and send it to TrentM so that your tractor can be included. Tractor SN, Engine SN, Cast codes, certain PNs, color, options and such. No information will be devuldged such as the owner or location on the machine.
Click here for an example of what has been collected this far. http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Cub%20 ... ase_R2.pdf
Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:29 pm
Thanks for the plug Raymond!
I went and found one of the discussions about Circle Cubs. Enjoy:http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31587
Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:33 pm
Nothing positive, but the Farmall Letter Series Tractors book by Guy Fay and Andy Kraushaar, says the model symbol "CUB" was eliminated Jul 28, 1947, and on the same day the word Cub was added to the McCormick - Deering decal (McCormick - Deering Farmall Cub). If you look in The Wisconsin Historical Society Digital Collection at the Louisville Monthly Production Records for 1947, the first Cub S/N for the month of August 1947, was 3081. The first S/N for the month of September is 4821. What is not known is, did they continue to use up the "stock" of Cub decals before changing to the McCormick - Deering Farmall Cub, or did they stop using the Cub decal the day it was eliminated. From what others had said, it would appear they used up the circle decals and that the change took place in Aug . Based on the production figures for the month of Aug (1740), it would appear they built 435 Cubs a week, and at that rate it would appear the Cub decal was dropped during the 2nd or 3rd week of production, based on the S/N's of tractors with and without the circle decal that others have reported.
Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:49 pm
Paul gives a pretty good summary of the published information. I think it safe to say that they used decals past the decision date as 3523 has the Circles. Beyond any of this scant information ... we need to keep our eyes out for evidence of original decals on tractors in the serial number range previously mentioned. 3523 was spotted at Central Indiana CubFest last year. They're out there, its just a matter of knowing what to look for when you spot something ... and then passing along the info!!
Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:56 pm
I saw a restored cub today,that has the Circle C decals on it..Nobody was home,so i didn't stop by and check it out..It's sitting at a tree farm that has been in business since 1920.They also have a M and a Super M,that has been restored.
Is the tractor serial number,the only sure way to know it's an authentic Circle C? If it is an original,what's it worth?
Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:14 pm
David, if it is a serial number higher than 4xxx then you can bet it isn't a Circle Cub. As for value, There are as many answers to that as there are flavors of ice cream.
Here is the one Trent and I saw at CI Cubfest and as he said, the serial is 3523.
Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:48 pm
Restored tractors end up with Circles on them all the time. Sometimes folks just like 'em and want to use 'em. Also, there are generic decal kits out there that include the Circles and I'm sure many of those are used.
Another clue to look for: because the word "Cub" was in the Circle on the doglegs, "Cub" was not needed on the hood decal. The hood decal for a Circle Cub reads "McCormick-Deering Farmall."
Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:45 pm
Just curious-I agree that from the picyture, Cub 3523 looks like it has a well-worn coat of paint, and older decals-but how do we know that the paint and/or the decals are factory?
A lot can happen in 50+ years-and it can even look old.....
Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:54 pm
awander wrote:Just curious-I agree that from the picyture, Cub 3523 looks like it has a well-worn coat of paint, and older decals-but how do we know that the paint and/or the decals are factory?
A lot can happen in 50+ years-and it can even look old.....
Andy, there is no way to tell for sure. It is guesswork more than anything. Looking at the Cub standing next to it you "Kinda" get a feel for it. I think if a farmer was going to repaint it he might have done it after 20-25 years. If so then we would be looking at a 35-40 year old paint job.
I doubt that a farmer would care to spend money on decals though. His main concern would be to preserve the tractor. I also doubt anybody would have bought this to restore back in the 60's. At that time everybody wanted 56 Chevy's and 40 Fords.
Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:15 pm
Bill and I stood together next to that tractor (along with several others) and we had the same "feeling." Its one is just a good ol', well maintained, original.
Here is a tractor from the 40's that was "restored" during the 1960s:
This is the tractor Dad and I received as a gift from my great aunt. My great aunt and uncle bought this tractor in 1952, someone else had traded it in for a Super M, so the story goes. They used it well into the 1990s. It was rebuilt (with machine shop work) and painted in the mid- to late-60s. Dad remembers the work was done a little before he went to Vietnam.
We're pretty sure that 3523 is for real.
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