Steering wheel turns *hard*, and collar is sloppy.

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Postby Bigdog » Sun Aug 08, 2004 4:23 pm

Bigger hammer????????? :?
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Bigger hammer...

Postby allenlook » Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:00 pm

I'm trying the back of my axe... It's the biggest hammer I've got!

The thing ain't budging...
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Postby rleggitt » Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:11 pm

Hi Allenlook,

Here is just one tip:

Get you some KROIL penetrating oil and put a few drops in the tube
everyday for about a week.

Then when you get the spindle out set up an electrolysis vat and
put the tube in it for there for about 3-4 days. Take the tube out
and clean very well then use "0000" steel wool soaked in KROIL
and polish the inside. Then do the same thing with the spindle.

Then put together and enjoy. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Rudi » Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:41 pm

Russ has a good idea. BUT - and this is something I AM going to try.

Take the whole front axle and stick it in the electolysis tank - stuck end first. Let is sit and bubble for oh say 48 hours. Then clean it all up real good. Use Kroil or Solvo-Rust from Loctite for a couple of days. Then take a block of maple and a 3 lb mallet. Smack the maple with the mallet. It should pop right out.

I did not use the vat on my axle, and I wish I had. I did use the Solvo-Rust though for 4 days. It loosened right up after smacking it with the mallet.

Let us know what happens at any rate.
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So far...

Postby allenlook » Sun Aug 08, 2004 8:45 pm

So far, I have whaled the crap out of it, and split a healthy amount of kindling on the top of the steering knuckle rod.

I bought an air hammer and tried that, nada.

I've soaked it for two days with penetrating oil, nada.

I whaled it with an axe, with the axle across the top of some concrete blocks. I think after about 5 minutes, I had managed to move the rod about 1/32". At that rate, it would take approximately two weeks to get the rod all the way out. I am also concerned about spreading the top of the rod, which would make removal impossible without some serious grinding and retrue-ing.

I have plenty of garbage pails and things to make an electrolysis tank, although I don't think the solution is going to get inside the tube (which is chock full of grease) to get to the part that needs unsticking.

QUESTION - What should I use for the power source? And... can I put all these rusty bolts and things on a steel rack and de-rust them in the tank all at once?
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Postby Donny M » Sun Aug 08, 2004 8:58 pm

Allenlook,

The rusted parts have to be between the bushings. When you said:
I've soaked it for two days with penetrating oil, nada
is that really a soaking or is it just squirting at the joints :?: Are the steering arms off of the knuckels :?: :?:
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Soaking...

Postby allenlook » Sun Aug 08, 2004 9:04 pm

The steering arms are off the knuckles, the keys are out, the wheels are off, just about everything I can strip off the axle assembly is gone.

I have squirted enough grease into the fittings to replace the grease/gunk in the rod about twice, but I suppose I could take out the grease fitting and soak the whole assembly in degreaser or something for a day or two, and then try squirting penetrating oil into the rod housing from the grease fitting hole...

I was able to just barely turn the assembly by whaling on the wheel hub with the axe.

I also am not able to remove the axle ends from the axle housing (it is supposed to be the adjustable axle assembly.) I have removed the collars and the pins, and applied liberal doses of heat and penetrating oil for the last two days, but they won't budge either!
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Postby Donny M » Sun Aug 08, 2004 9:12 pm

Allenlook,

Mr. GW rigged something up to jack the axles apart. I couldn't find the thread quickly. Maybe Mr. GW will post another one of his pictures and save the day. Keep puttting the PB blaster to the knuckles and keep at it. They'll give up after awhile...if you don't :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Rudi » Sun Aug 08, 2004 9:13 pm

I have plenty of garbage pails and things to make an electrolysis tank,


What you really need is a 45 gallon plastic barrel, or better yet a 200 gallon rectangular plastic tank, that way you can put the whole axle in the tank.

although I don't think the solution is going to get inside the tube (which is chock full of grease) to get to the part that needs unsticking.


Wrong!!!!! I put mine in the tank, and the solution did get between the grease and the steel. It really does. And it does what it is supposed to do.

QUESTION - What should I use for the power source?


A battery charger - set it on 12 volts at 6 amps and watch the bubbles start!

Ask Art and Lurker Carl... they saw the tank in action at CubFest Northeast.

And... can I put all these rusty bolts and things on a steel rack and de-rust them in the tank all at once?


Remember, each of the items you wish to derust must be connected to the negative or cathode in the system. The positive or anodes are the sacrificial lambs so to speak. If you can put your parts on a rack, it should work I would think, as long as the anodes do not touch the rack.
I have been thinking on putting a bunch of small parts into a wire basket, using the basket as the anode and see what happens.(Jim thanks for correction on terminology :roll: )

Read Jim Beckers notes on electrolysis on the manual server. Then just adjust for size.
Last edited by Rudi on Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Jim Becker » Sun Aug 08, 2004 9:59 pm

The electrolite solution for the derusting tank is heavy duty detergent, so it can work its way into or under grease and oil (eventually). The less it has to work its way through the better.

One point of terminology, the positive lead is called an anode (the scrap that goes away). Anything with a negative charge (the part you are cleaning) is a cathode.

Throwing a bunch of small parts into a metal rack will work. Any that don't get an electrical connection to the rack will not clean up. If you want to use that approach, you might want to pull the basket out and churn the parts around once in a while. That may get ones with a poor connection going. It will also move around the areas that aren't working as well. The process works best on surfaces that have straight line visibility to the anodes.

I used a variation of the basket idea. I have a large stainless steel tub. I just put the parts I was cleaning on the bottom of the tub and connected the negative lead to the tub. The sacrificial anodes were hung down into the solution, insulated from the tub. Note that the tub was NOT acting as the sacrificial anode but served as the connector to the parts being cleaned. After running for a while, I turned the parts being cleaned the other side up as the surfaces facing down didn't get much derusting action.
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Postby rleggitt » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:42 pm

Hi Allen,

When I answered your original post I missed that the spindle and tube were that stuck. When I have something that is assembled and really difficult to get apart because of grease/gunk, paint, and rust, such as the front axle assembly I put 1 1/2 - 2 table spoons of washing soda to a gal. of water in the 50 gallon electrolysis vat and leave for about a week.
You will want to remove the grease fittings so the solution can enter the
axle tube.

I have found that the grease/gunk and paint as well as the rust will
come off easily.

I have just finished two complete front axle assemblies this way and
the spindles knocked out with little hammering with birch dowels and a
small shop hammer.

With this you should not have to worry about damaging the spindle.

I have not tried it but I think it would be worth investigating to use a
bearing seperator and a shop press and push the spindle out of the
tube.
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Postby George Willer » Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:23 pm

Donny M wrote:Allenlook,

Mr. GW rigged something up to jack the axles apart. I couldn't find the thread quickly. Maybe Mr. GW will post another one of his pictures and save the day. Keep puttting the PB blaster to the knuckles and keep at it. They'll give up after awhile...if you don't :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Donny,

It took a bit to find the picture, but I knew it was somewhere.

This setup keeps the pressure straight. I found that it is important to do so. It takes an enormous pressure and it MUST be the same top and bottom. In addition to the vibration, heat, and penetrant, it took between 16 to 20 tons to make it move. Don't even think about loosening a stuck one by pounding!

I was tempted to give up on this one, but the sides were set differently for some reason.

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Postby johnbron » Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:14 pm

:twisted: George, As I was looking at your picture I was thinking to myself, I wonder if George had a person on each jack for even movement OR did George do it by himself and jack a little on one jack and then run around the table to the other jack and even it up.

Heh,Heh!!, Whats the answer?. :{_}:
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Postby Donny M » Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:26 pm

Thanks Mr. GW,

I knew we could count on you. :D :D :D
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Postby George Willer » Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:25 am

johnbron wrote::twisted: George, As I was looking at your picture I was thinking to myself, I wonder if George had a person on each jack for even movement OR did George do it by himself and jack a little on one jack and then run around the table to the other jack and even it up.

Heh,Heh!!, Whats the answer?. :{_}:


Bronson,

A lot of trips around the table. Each jack could only move a few thousandths before it would bind. The side that finally came loose was cleaned up and re-assembled with the pin so the other side would be pushed out.

The inside of the outer tube was cleaned using a sander belt wrapped around a slotted rod and driven by a drill motor.
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