6V starter, 12V battery?

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allenlook
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6V starter, 12V battery?

Postby allenlook » Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:37 pm

In looking at the pictures on the TM Tractor gallery, I would swear I've got a 6V starter, and a 12V battery...

I say that because of the different circumferences of the 6V vs. the 12V device, and because I can't find a picture of a 12V device with the trademark "telegraph button" starter/actuator on the side of it, which I am certain mine has.

I'm not entirely certain until I get home tonight to look at the tractor - but I'm assuming that that's "all kinds of bad."
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Postby Bigdog » Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:45 pm

Allenlook, most conversions to 12 volts do not include changing the starter. The 6 volt starter motor will operate quite well on 12 volts. Just remember not to crank for long periods of time to avoid overheating the starter.
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Thank you!

Postby allenlook » Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:51 pm

Thanks BD... It's good to know that it won't just "smoke" it some idle Saturday when I'm counting on getting some work done. :shock:

And I'll be very sure not to crank it over for extended periods (which hopefully won't happen anyway, Jay seems pretty happy to fire right up every time I pull the starter rod.)

By the way - I've been meaning to offer my condolences to your dog (in your avatar picture)... It must have been a horrible accident to lose both his ears like that? But he seems to be taking it well. :D
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Postby Matt Kirsch » Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:45 pm

Just seconding the "it'll work fine on 12 Volts" notion. With 12 Volts, the spark is so much hotter and the tractor spins over so much faster that starting is rarely an issue. My Dad's Super M spins over so fast that it won't start unless you release the key and let it slow down! :twisted:

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Postby Bigdog » Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:48 pm

Matt, I have found that when you are dealing with tractors that have magnetos, there is an advantage to them cranking over more slowly. The mag impulse will not function when the engine is cranking over quickly and you lose the benefit it provides in starting.
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Postby Arizona Mike » Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:54 pm

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My '57 turns very slowly, seems like it should turn faster. The starter sounds like its wearing out.

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Postby BA » Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:45 pm

Oh, heck. I've got a pretty darn fine starter/battery story.

My Dad had what we think (we don't have it anymore) a '46 Cub with no documents or anything. The one thing it had was ALL of the cultivators down to the last nut and bolt, but I digress...

Anyway, Dad would never fix nothin' if it was gonna cost a dime. A carb rebuild kit was something like 18 bucks at the time but would he fix it - nope. Why fix it, was the reasoning. The gas stopped pouring on the ground once the tractor started....which leads to the story.

He also broke the starter rod/button hook up and wouldn't replace it - don't recall but he might never have had it in the first place. He also apparently never knew the tractor had a positive ground. Besides the fact that I now wonder why it would turn over at all with the battery backwards :? , he used to take the bare cable and touch it to the starter contact to start the tractor which it would - in an absolutely wonderful shower of sparks that were like July 4th....especially beautiful in the snow :roll:

Well, sparks, gasoline flowing out the dripping carb...you get the picture.

He never blew anything up or caught it on fire, but you can bet your last Cub dollar that I used the hand crank to start that tractor up!!! :)

Memories like that contributed to purchasing the Cub in the first place. Seems like you just have to have one around, you know? Let's see...there was the cobbled together snow blade, poking a stick through the radiator while pushing a brush pile with said cobbled snow blade, cracking the rear end housing trying to pull a boulder the size of a small house... And I wonder why I bought one! :{_}: Heck, all I've got is rust and a balky clutch - where's the fun in that???

Dad ended up trading the tractor for a woodstove...danger never diminishes, it just changes form!!
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Postby WJ » Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:34 pm

That sounds alot like the kinda of stunts my dad pulled.
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Re: 6V starter, 12V battery?

Postby chief251a » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:15 pm

Your 6 volt starter will live forever in a 12 volt environment, and I can even explain it in words of less than 6 syllables.

The power it takes to spin the motor is the same regardless of voltage, and therein lies the explanation. Look at it this way - P (power) = E (volts) times I (amps). If you double the E - volts - you reduce the I (amps) by half required to generate the same P (power) required to spin the motor. Your starter will probably spin faster due to the higher voltage, but not a lot. I have worked with several 6+ to 12- conversion tractors and I don't remember the motors spinning noticeably faster.

In plain English, with 12 volts pushing, the starter needs half the amps to generate the same P and do the same job - spin the motor. But the starter was built to withstand twice the amps (bigger brushes, thicker wire, etc). My daddy taught me that, and I haven't caught him in a lie yet. That's good, because we buried the old soldier at Arlington back in 2003 and it's a long trip to bark at him.

That's why we went to 12 volt systems. Double the voltage and you cut the amps required in half to do a given job. More amps means thicker wire, more volts means better insulation. Last I looked, insulation was cheaper than copper wire. That's also why a lot of milspec stuff went to 24 volts - more volts means smaller, cheaper, and lighter gauge wire. With 24 volts you get 4 times the P pushed through a given gauge wire with no increase in Amps.

Now, he didn't tell me why the starter turns in the "right" direction regardless of polarity, but I think I can work that out. The brushes are offset x degrees in y direction from the magnetic field created by the field (duh!) windings. CW or CCW, reverse the polarity and you are still pulling in the same direction. A CW motor will still spin CW, and a CCW motor will still spin CCW - it's the direction of the offset that matters, not the polarity.

If your starter seems to be dragging, that's another problem. Most likely, the bronze bushings in the starter have worn out so much that the armature is contacting the pole shoes. Pole shoes don't like that much. If you have good brushes and the commutator is in good shape - and the starter still turns at all - look at the bushings.


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