Cub's running

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Cub's running

Postby Joey » Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:11 pm

Well, I finally got Popeye running with the help of a friend (ex tractor mechanic). Try as we could, we could not get the tractor to run with the 6 volt, magneto system. The mag seemed to be putting out plenty of fire but it just wouldn't crank the engine. I had a distributor on hand, sooooo, we exchanged the distributor for the magneto, hotwired a 12 volt coil to a small 12 volt garden tractor battery, barely pushed the starter button and the tractor was running. My friend strongly encouraged me to convert to 12 volts and after seeing the difference, I'm making the switch. Popeye will be a work tractor because he's made up of various replacement parts and has no serial no. tag. I'm off to buy an alternator. Any suggestions on mounting the alternator? Do I have to fabricate a bracket or is there a stock mounting bracket from IH? Any other electrical items I need to be aware of? Thanks for any help.
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Postby Bigdog » Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:24 pm

Joey, I would suspect that your problem was an improperly timed magneto. But, since you are going to convert to 12 volts, you will also need to change the lights to 12 volts. George Willer has some shots of alternator mounting. Perhaps he or someone else will post one or two.
You could stick with the 6 volt system and use a 6 volt coil instead of a 12 volt one. It would be a lot cheaper to do.
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Postby Rudi » Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:17 pm

Joey:

J.D. Hurley penned a nice how-to on completeing 12-Volt Conversion with a Hitachi 14231 Alternator
It is on the Cub Manual Server under Maintenance Tips and Techniques.
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Postby Joey » Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:17 pm

Took you up on your advice, BD, about the 6 volt coil. Might as well rule out the cheaper choice before spending big dollars. Lo and behold, the tractor cranked as soon as the starter button was pushed! I keep hearing a lot about how poor the 6 volt system is - so far, both my tractors are 6 volt and both run. However, carb, timing, and fire have to be just right. For now, I'll stick with the 6 volt system.

Popeye has been undergoing a workover - a new headpiece, a new heart, cornea transplant (I know, I won't be able to call him Popeye), a few plumbing leaks, and a different exhaust system. I changed the manifold because of a broken ear tab. The used replacement manifold had the 90 degree ell for the rear exhaust and I could not get it off, it was welded in. Sooo, I just changed from vertical exhaust to rear exhaust. However, the problem is I have a rubber hose going from fuel bowl to the carb and the hose rubs against the exhaust pipe. I need to change to a metal fuel line. What are the fittings needed and what size/type of line is needed? Any picture available? Thanks for the help, I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel (and my wife can quit giving me that "I told you it was junk" look).
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Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:04 pm

Joey wrote: I keep hearing a lot about how poor the 6 volt system is - so far, both my tractors are 6 volt and both run. However, carb, timing, and fire have to be just right. For now, I'll stick with the 6 volt system.

I was raised with Farmall H tractors, all on 6 volt systems, and have 2 cubs with 6 volt systems. We used the Hs all winter long to feed cattle and clear snow from roads, and I use the cubs for snow clearance still. they always started. I think most people that say a 6 volt system isn't any good don't bother to maintain them properly.
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Postby beaconlight » Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:19 pm

Even a steel fuel tube doesn't want to rub against the exhaust pipe. This is a gravity fuel system so I don't thnk you will get a vapor lock. But still not a good idea.
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Postby Merlin » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:44 am

Joey, is Popeye your first Cub, or second Cub? Glad you got it running.
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Postby Joey » Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:31 am

Merlin: Popeye is my first Cub from you. Didn't realize he was in the ugly Cub contest, you wouldn't recognize him now from the picture! If I figure out how to do it, I may do a before and after picture. Had to change the flywheel and the rear seal - a pretty ambitous project considering what little free time I had. Went ahead and took care of other items and still have other little things that need work. Maybe he'll get a paint job next year.

Bill: I was mainly interested in a metal fuel line because 1) that's how they came from the factory and 2) it can be bent to go around the exhaust pipe and hydraulic lines. Anyone has pictures they can steer me to that shows the bending? What kind of fittings are used?[/code]
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Postby Jim Becker » Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:13 am

Buy a piece of straight brake line to bend for a gas line. Cut off the flared ends and use compression fittings. You can use the same nuts and just need the compression rings. However, a lot of brake lines come with very long nuts. If the parts store doesn't have the fittings, a hardware store will.

I use the pictures in the owners manual for a guide on bending it. There are several pictures in the manual that help. Look at all of them before you start bending.
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Postby Joey » Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:25 am

Thanks, Jim, I'll check out the parts store this weekend. Seems like I've been a regular customer lately.
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Postby Rudi » Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:14 am

Ya know what :?:

I have been thinkin :!: :idea: Yeah, I know :roll: That can be dangerous :shock: :? . My wife tells me that all the time :lol: . The only thing she is more scared about than me cutting off parts is when I start thinking about stuff. :lol:

There has been tons of discussion on how to go about converting from 6 volts to 12 volts, but none of the reverse!

Now for us electrically challenged individuals, it would be great is someone could put together a How To Change Your Cub Back to 6 Volts! article.

Reason this has popped into my brain, is that Granny is 12 volts, looks like heck, wiring is a mess and all mucked up, nothing original at all. Gotta go back to a mag and redo all the wiring.

Question: Is it just a simple matter of swapping out the distributor for a mag, changing the alternator back to the generator and then re-wiring? What would be the logical steps????

Just some food for thought :idea: . Any takers :?:
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Postby Bigdog » Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:25 am

Rudi, it would be difficult to write such an article because many of the 12 volt conversions are as you say "mucked up" so without knowing just what was done, it is sometimes difficult to "undo". One thing though, converting back to 6 volts does not mean you need to replace the distributor with a mag. You just need to remove a ballast resistor or replace the coil with the appropriate one. In fact, many 12 volt conversions are done with the magneto remaining since it is independent of the starting / charging circuit.
The easiest answer is that the manual has all the information on the original circuitry. One just needs to re-install the original 6 volt components and connect them according to the diagrams in the manual.
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Postby George Willer » Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:32 am

Rudi wrote:Ya know what :?:


Question: Is it just a simple matter of swapping out the distributor for a mag, changing the alternator back to the generator and then re-wiring? What would be the logical steps????

Just some food for thought :idea: . Any takers :?:


Rudi,

There is a pitfall on the dist/mag swap. Many times the governor isn't carefully timed when a distributor is used, since the correct timing can be fudged by adjusting the drive adapter. Be prepared to go through the governor timing exersize first.
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Postby Rudi » Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:07 am

George and BD:

George wrote:
There is a pitfall on the dist/mag swap. Many times the governor isn't carefully timed when a distributor is used, since the correct timing can be fudged by adjusting the drive adapter. Be prepared to go through the governor timing exercise first.


This is the kind of stuff I mean. Stuff that others have found that may be helpful and is not in the manual, cause field/other modifications are not exactly according to the book....

I am going to get rid of the distributor on Granny. She is a 47 and originally came with a mag, so that is how she is gonna be. Besides, I am beginning to understand mags, and I really don't need to be confused by distributors - at least not yet.

Yup, the wiring diagrams are in the manual and are of great help, but again, there are those nasty conversions..... guess the best way is as BD said - "get the original parts and start from there".

I will have to get my gumption up and dig right in.... :roll:
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Postby Joey » Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:49 pm

Mr. George: I just swapped a battery ignition unit for my magneto, but didn't mess with the governor. The tractor runs good, but seems to overload when idling and the exhaust is black smoke. Is this a carburetor adjustment or a governor adjustment as you mentioned?
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