Tranny Gunk! :O

Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:47 am

Man, take a look at what I found in my gearbox! I just spent the last hour brushing kerosene (and dumping it liberally) into the gearbox, from the top and from the rear cover opening, to try to get all the white and tan syrup out of the gearbox, and to get all of the black jelly off the walls of this thing! What a mess!!!

There was no gasket on the top cover, just some remnants from two or three attempts at making a gasket with blue silicone and other crap...

I also found a steel ball in the base of the tranny, kind of set into a little depression in the tranny, but not with a spring or anything around it, it was just loose and stuck in a nook. Gotta hit the parts manuals to see if this is related to my PTO (don't think so!), or if it is a wayward detent ball from up front (I'm not missing one up there that I know of)

Image

Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:09 am

The steel ball is more than likely a "poppet ball", found under the shifting rails. I think this would indicate the transmission has been "into" before.
I'd hang on to it, the P.O. may have dropped it while re-installing the rail.
They will launch, to destinations unknown. I know. :oops:
http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Cub%20Maintenance%20Manuals/Cub-Transmission%20Details/Page%2006.jpg

Poppet Ball

Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:53 pm

I'd say it's been "into" before, considering the remaining blue gunk, the missing gaskets, and the ameteur welding on the shifting forks... But I think it's got both poppet balls now, so they must have replaced them if they were lost...

Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:55 pm

Allen,

Don't be to concerned about the gunk and crud in there. Mine looked the same way, Actually maybe even a little worse, then the final drive gears and carrier. looked as if they pumped pure grease in there. NOW, I didn't find any un-attached parts, but like Mr.HR said, more than likely a poppet ball for the shift detent that wasn't put in correctly. Was the tractor jumping out of gear beforehand?

The PTO bearing has a grease zerk, people have the tenancy to pump, pump and pump more grease than really needed in there, this may be way there is so much gummy gunk all over. PLUS, if you have a tractor like mine hitting the 50 year mark, God only knows what all has been dumped in the gear cases over that long of period of time.

Looking at the picture, even though it had to get a good eyeball view, appears that the gears are still in good shape yet with good "lead-in" Take a good look at your shifting forks and rails. Check your bearings and I will be willing to bet that transmission will give you many, many years of trouble free service.

Like yourself I was worried what shape my gears and the rest of the transmission. So I took everything out cleaned and dye checked every single gear tooth and replace the bearing and any seals and put it back together. NOW, if your not wanting to go to the extreme that I did, I would suggest keep cleaning the complete transmission out and keep washing over and over again. I would use the kerosene first, then I used a petroleum base cleaning solvent. I myself use Safety Kleen

Here's also a trick I have used in the past. I have me one of them "Little Giant" submergible pumps (you can get them at the hardware store for outdoor ponds and fountains and such) put it into a 5 gallon bucket and then fill the bucket up with a couple gallons of cleaning solvent or kerosene. Put a hose on the pressure side of the pump and then using my cleaning brush and with the pump pumping solvent up to the top end, let if flow back out of the drain hole on the transmission and then you have you a portable parts washer. Keep the pump off the bottom of the bucket several inches so it won't be picking up the gunk that comes out. Mine has a filter, to help keep out the majority of the gunk from being re-used. After you have it all cleaned out then, put in clean solvent and rinse it all out. Of course, you can change the solvent as many times as you want,

(IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY) there is a passage way between the transmission and the differential ,so both uses the same oil. Chances are the differential looks about the same way. It's been a few months since I torn mine down and have worked on other tractors since, 38 years old here and already have CRS

Hey good luck on you transmission, but I think you'll find your transmission is in fine shape, just put that ball where it's suppose to be. IF, it is even suppose to be!

I know that several years ago I was doing an upper end on a old Harley I had. I didn't want to split the case so I just took everything down to the top of the engine block. I thought about stuffing a rag in the top to where the cylinder jug is bolted onto the block. I thought well heck, what are the chances of dropping somthing just perfectably between the flywheels and connecting rod. Well this is where Murphy's Law fell into play. Drop the darn wrist pin keeper went right in. Fished it out with some magnets on a wire and guess what? Not only did I bring back my keepr, but two more. I guess someone else did the same dumb stunt.


John Niekamp
Last edited by John Niekamp on Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thank you

Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:05 pm

Thanks for a great response John.

I'm pretty sure the poppets are in there, and that this one is a 'spare'.

Everything looks to be in great shape in the transmission, and also for the diff, except there's some banging on the very outer edge of the teeth on the big gear in the rear diff., probably from popping that ball around for several years. It's not so much wear as chips and contusions.

I'm curious what the hole is for that it was stuck in - it obviously doesn't belong in there, but it's a large hole with threads in it, facing rearward toward the rear cover from just pass the large diff assembly - just to the right of it and on the bottom (floor) of the diff housing.

The only passage I saw was up really high, inside the housing near where the PTO lever is, and it runs from the tranny through a hole and down a little "gutter" that's cast into the housing before running out on top of the right diff gear. But, there must be one down lower somewhere because when I was pressure washing I got a lot of gunk from the tranny out through the rear diff.

Thanks again!

Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:43 pm

Allen,

This had my curiosity up. I have been going all through my Cub book and I have the same descriptions, illustrations and even page number that Rudi has on his site that HR referred you to, just above.

The only tapped holes I see are the one's on top for the "poppet" balls, on the transmission, but these we know what their functions are. Really makes me wonder if the previous owner may have lost a ball. The book says, "CAUTION: cover shifter poppet ball holes to prevent the balls and springs from flying out as the rods are removed." SO "maybe as you have said this was one someone lost at one time or another.

The only other thing I could think is maybe this hole in the differential housing, could it have been maybe something that the factory put in there to clamp a dial indicator for setting the preload for the bearings or end play? I don't know, this is just a WILD, WILD guess. I have looked all though my book and it does not show or talk about this drilled and tapped hole. Because all the other bolts hole are spoken for, either they hold on the bearing retainer or the axel housings. Then the only other one I can remember is the actual drain itself. Heck, I guess I really wouldn't worry to much about it, if you can't find anything besides a poppet ball to stick in it, LOL!

Hey I got it, what about this thought, maybe your tractor was built on Monday and someone had a wild, wild weekend and misread the blueprint and thought that would be a good place there just to place some threads. Then again, maybe it was a design change and that is why I don't have one on mine. Doubtful, these little tractors didn't seem to have to awful many changes over thier many years of production

Keep us posted if you figure out what it may have been used for, I may have forgotten something myself. I sure can't visualize this hole for some reason.

John Niekamp

Hey

Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:52 am

Hey John,

Good guesses anyway, and better than mine!

The hole is big, about 5/8" in diameter and 5/8" deep, going from memory, it was WAY bigger than the little ball, which was just lodged in the gook that was stuck in the hole.

It's hard to describe the hole... If you take out the PTO shaft and take off that rear access cover, you can look right in at the differential. The big gear is on the left, and the smaller gear goes out to the right.

Then, look down at the "floor" of the differential housing (ignoring the puddles of gook) and look forward past the diff gears up to the front wall of the "cavity".

So you're looking at the front wall of the cavity (the other side of which lies the transmission), and there on the right side of that wall, and at or near the bottom, you see this 5/8" (or so) threaded hole, looking right out at you, like you could thread a pipe into it and it would stick straight out the back of the tractor...

I have the same pics and I went through all my manuals last night, including the service manuals, the transmission manual, and the parts manual, (all of which kind of repeat the same info), and nowhere could I find an internal diagram of the differential housing, nor could I find a use for that hole...

Being all full of gunk like that, maybe it was a "black hole."

Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:02 am

While I was in Granny'y tranny looking around, I could not get over how the insides of the tranny looked just like the Pettitcodiac River or as it is better known the Chocolate River. I also cannot get over how I missed the fact that there is not a whole lot of fluid in there. Not exactly sure how many mililitres 3-1/2 pints are, but it HAS to be more than what is in Granny :!:
Gonna take a pic or two, then I am going to do the kerosene trick and see what happens. Not trying the pressure washer avenue - I WILL be wearing all that gunk if I do......

Oh, as I said before the problem with Granny's tranny stuck in first was that both shifter forks were loose. One appeared cracked/broken but I am having my doubts now -- needs some further consultation with the manual. However, one does have a stripped bolt, just hope the part it threads into isn't stripped :!:

Shifter forks...

Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:06 am

Yes, it looks like both of my shifter forks had some "dab" welding done to them, right where the ears come up to catch the end of the shift lever.

Gotta go take out the fill plug and try to see if my PTO is engaged correctly or not...

Re: Hey

Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:39 am

allenlook wrote:The hole is big, about 5/8" in diameter and 5/8" deep, going from memory, it was WAY bigger than the little ball, which was just lodged in the gook that was stuck in the hole.

It's hard to describe the hole... If you take out the PTO shaft and take off that rear access cover, you can look right in at the differential. The big gear is on the left, and the smaller gear goes out to the right.

Then, look down at the "floor" of the differential housing (ignoring the puddles of gook) and look forward past the diff gears up to the front wall of the "cavity".

So you're looking at the front wall of the cavity (the other side of which lies the transmission), and there on the right side of that wall, and at or near the bottom, you see this 5/8" (or so) threaded hole, looking right out at you, like you could thread a pipe into it and it would stick straight out the back of the tractor...

Sounds to me like you are looking at the inside end of the drain hole.

Drail

Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:06 am

I thought the drain hole was the little 3/8" plug low on the left side of the tractor? Or is that the level hole?

Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:10 am

That is the level hole. Draining it to that plug will leave the transmission "full".

"Full"...

Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:46 pm

Well, mine drained through that hole for a good 15 minutes the other day! Of course, it was more caramel than HyTran!