Noise from transmission (?) area

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Noise from transmission (?) area

Postby David » Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:07 am

Hi All:

Wondered if anyone has had a similar problem to mine.

While moving (no noise when stationary), I get a noise from seems like just below the gear stick. To me almost sounds like some small piece of metal being hurtled around inside, and hitting the inside case.

Any ideas?

It is a 48 Cub by the way.
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Postby Bigdog » Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:35 am

David, There is a possibility that one of the bolts holding the rims to the wheel centers may be loose. Several have reported finding that to cause a noise similar to what you describe. If it is indeed coming from inside the tranny, the only way to really know what is happening is to pull the top off the case and have a look around. Do this before it causes additional, even more serious problems.
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Transmission Noise

Postby Bill V in Md » Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:02 am

David,

If indeed it is coming from inside transmission, one possibility is a broken shifer fork. I am currently in the process of working on mine, and in addition to some other problems, I found the shifter fork was broken. The forks are mounted on rails (1st photo). I didn't even realize that one of the forks was broken until I loosened the set screw and it fell apart (2nd photo). Good Luck.

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Postby Rudi » Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:30 am

Bill:

I agree with you my friend :!: Granny's tranny was very noisy. Thought that it was just the nature of the beast. Everyone seems to agree that Cub tranny's are noisy. Ellie's is very quiet compared to Granny.

As you know from my Granny's Tranny thread, that I had a broken shifter fork. After having the fork welded (top notch job btw) and figuring out how to get it all back together, Granny's Tranny is MUCH quieter.

The only reason I checked it was because I lost 1st and reverse gears and could not shift period. Also, the set screw was stripped as well which did not help matters much.

Oh, I took a bunch of pics, but not good ones of the break in the forks. These will be for an amateur article on how a dummy like me can actually repair a tranny :shock: :? :roll: :roll:

Any additional pics/commentary would be a great help!

David:

I certainly would have a look see at the forks BEFORE you move your Cub around a lot. If the fork is broken you might do a lot more damage. Be prepared to take the rods out and be REAL careful around the poppet balls. Put your finger over the bores so the ball doesn't launch itself into outer space :!: :roll: :oops:
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Postby David » Sun Oct 03, 2004 5:49 pm

OK. So I will take a look inside. Are the photos that Bill loaded from the top or the bottom?

How does one remove the shifting fork?
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Postby farmallcub49 » Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:12 pm

It appears that particular shifting fork was a poor design, because my new one from IH was built differently. The new one on the left side of the photo is is welded wear the shifter goes into the fork, the old one wasn't.http://pic16.picturetrail.com:80/VOL659/2547102/5058328/t-68566349.jpg
The photos are taken from the top.
To remove the fork, you first remove the the bolt that holds it in a detent.
Then I put a vise grip on the shiter rail and lightly tap rearward with a hammer on the vise grip. As it slides rearward, don't go to far or the poppet ball will fly out. Place one hand over the poppet ball hole and pull rearward on the vise grip. This will slide the rail into the differential case. Keep your hand over the ball hole. If it goes into tranny case, you can always retrieve with a magnet. Only time will make you an expert on that :roll: . Now you can slide the fork off the rail. Replace with new/repaired fork and put everything together. Sounds simple doesn't it. I wish I were closer so I could show you. I should just use that new camera and document it step by step! David pm me for more help.
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Postby Rudi » Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:13 pm

David:

The photos are overhead shots. One removes the shift forks thusly:

1. Remove the set screw.
2. Slide shift rail to the rear of the tractor - SLOWLY and with your thumb over the bore hole of the poppet ball.
3. Once the fork is free of the shift rail, you should be able to rotate it out of the case quite easily.

4. Either get a replacement fork - would suggest from JP Tractor Salvage, TM Tractor Parts, or from [http://www.chowntractorparts.com]Chown Tractor Parts. All of these businesses are pretty great people, easy to do business with and willing to please.

You may also, want to investigate getting it welded at a local welding shop. As long as they do not want a fortune for the job, that might be the most economical. Buying a new one from CaseIH will definitely put you in the poor house as they are very expensive - about $60.00US ($85.00 Cdn). Used would probably be half that and getting it welded should be no more than 20.00US thereabouts.

Here is the exploded diagram from the rails up:
Image

Pay attention to your poppet balls. Have an extendable magnetic pick-up tool handy. You WILL need it as you lose the balls in the tranny case. No - DON"T ASK :!: :roll: :oops: :roll: :lol: Just do a search on Tranny, read the threads, get ready to chuckle then emit a cloud of blue as YOU search for your :!: :lol: :lol: Poppet Balls that is :!:

I am sorry guys, I could not resist. The double entendre is just too good to pass up :lol: :lol:
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Postby Bigdog » Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:14 pm

David - I think you may find this link to the tranny manual on Rudi's site helpful.

http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Cub%20Maintenance%20Manuals/Cub-Transmission%20Details/index.html
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Postby Rudi » Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:24 pm

Seems Andy beat me to the punch and with a simpler answer to boot :!: :roll: :roll: And then I post just the parts page for the fork :!: :roll: :oops: like how come I didn't include the link to the Manual :?: :roll: :roll: :roll: Good thing for BD :!:

See BD, we keep you around for more than keeping track of the Cub Finder ya know :!: :wink: :lol:
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Transmission Noise

Postby Bill V in Md » Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:59 pm

One other tip that I picked up from our friend, George Willer, that proved helpful in removing the rails: After clamping down on it with the vice grips, rotate it about 90deg., before attempting to slide it rearward. This will dislodge the ball bearing from the rail's detent, and should make it easier to slide. Hope this helps.
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Postby David » Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:02 pm

Hi All -- thanks for all the great advice. Any chance that the poppet balls could have come loose and be flying around inside the transmission? I haven't looked yet (been busy with family stuff all day), but for some reason the noise sounds like a ball flying around inside. Guess I am going to have to take that cover plate off and take a look, huh?
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Postby Bigdog » Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:42 am

It is possible that someone worked on the tranny before and lost a poppet ball inside and just left it for the next guy. They're not going to come out unless someone moves the shifter rails.
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Postby Rudi » Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:10 am

David:

As BD said, it is more than possible that someone has worked on the tranny previously, and possibly lost a poppet ball inside the tranny. Trust me it is so very easy to do :roll: :oops: :roll: I don't think that the noise is being caused by the poppet ball, but I guess that could be a possibility though.

I too upon seeing that the poppet ball was not in the bore, thought that it was the ball rolling around in the tranny that was causing the noise, but I found out that the noise was caused by the broken fork. With the fork being broken and the set screw pretty well stripped from the constant pressure from the broken fork moving all the time, the noise just got louder and louder and eventually the fork became so loose that I could no longer get the tranny to shift properly.

In either case, the guys were right. No big deal :!: If a guy like me who has absolutely no knowledge or aptitude for mechanics can fix it, then anyone can. The whole trick is to read the service manual, examine the forks, rods, poppets and the gears, ask questions THEN methodically go about removing, fixing/replacing then re-installing the whole shebang. Not all that difficult :shock: :? :!: Well in retrospect anyways :lol:

Hopefully over the next day or so, I can get the presentation together on how I did it. Don't be afraid to tackle the job. It is actually a lot of fun :D
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Postby David » Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:02 pm

Rudi

Thanks for the advice. And if you can get the presentation together, that would be great, b/c I am so busy with work that I am not going to get to it for a little while!

David
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Postby David » Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:25 pm

I was reading the transmission manual from Rudi's site, and notice that the instructions call for splitting the case, removing the tranny etc, before removing the forks. Is this required? Or is it possible to just remove and replace the forks with the tractor all in one piece, just accessing from the top (as described on page 6-6, but omitting the first step)???
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