59 Cub - ammeter shows charge when stopped

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59 Cub - ammeter shows charge when stopped

Postby smack » Fri May 28, 2010 4:13 pm

In prepartion for starting my Cub that I've put back together (new OEM style harness, battery, ignition; voltage regulator, ammeter, etc., etc., When I connect the battery cable to the + terminal on the battery, the ammeter needs moves to the charge position (less than 1/4" inch) with the tractor NOT running. I assume this is NOT normal at all and wondering if I've wired some piece of it incorrectly even though I am very confident it was done correctly. I've static timed the distributor and the starter works fine, but I have not put the fuel tank in place yet to start it...just going slowing and trying to test all the other systems first. Can anyone tell me what is causing the ammeter to show a charge with the battery connected? Thanks!
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Re: 59 Cub - ammeter shows charge when stopped

Postby Eugene » Fri May 28, 2010 4:52 pm

Sounds like you have two problems.

1) Wires connected on the amp meter are reversed. Or battery installed backwards.
2) You either have a switch on or have a short. If not a switch, disconnect the bat terminal at the voltage regulator and see if the problem still exists.
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Re: 59 Cub - ammeter shows charge when stopped

Postby smack » Sat May 29, 2010 9:48 am

Eugene - thanks for taking the time to give your thoughts. The battery is new and correctly wired (6V positive ground) and the ammeter is also properly wired. When you say a switch might be on - the only one on the tractor is the light switch which is in the 'off' position, and there are no lamps connected to it anyway to draw current yet. I am going outside to disconnect the BAT terminal at the voltaage regulator. If that does does take the 'charge' away from the ammeter gauge what does that tell me?? I have no idea where to check for a short - everything is perfect new and I've gone over the wiring diagram (wiring harness is from Brillmans)...as you know...it's a pretty simple harness. Any other thoughts would be appreciated!
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Re: 59 Cub - ammeter shows charge when stopped

Postby Eugene » Sat May 29, 2010 10:42 am

Disconnecting the bat (battery) terminal will remove the voltage regulator from the electrical circuit. If the problem goes away - faulty regulator. The voltage regulator has a set of contacts that are supposed to open to prevent the battery from discharging.

Take a voltage meter and at the battery check to see if the generator is charging. If the system is charging change/reverse the wires on the back of the amp meter.

Check the wires for bare spots and bare spots rubbing on or in contact with metal.

Battery. Probably not at fault. But, upon occasion they have been known to have their posts mislabeled.
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Re: 59 Cub - ammeter shows charge when stopped

Postby Bus Driver » Sat May 29, 2010 11:16 am

With the engine not running, remove one battery cable from the battery, leave the other cable connected. Connect a voltmeter between the empty battery post and the disconnected cable. Any drain will show as a voltage reading. Start disconnecting things from the wiring harness until the voltmeter reads zero. The thing disconnected that drops the reading to zero is the problem.
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Re: 59 Cub - ammeter shows charge when stopped

Postby Bigdog » Sat May 29, 2010 6:08 pm

Smack - I hate to diagree but if your battery is connected correctly and the ammeter indicates a charge just by connecting the battery to the circuit, the ammeter has to be wired backwards. Any load in the circuit will show up as a discharge not a charge.
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Re: 59 Cub - ammeter shows charge when stopped

Postby Rudi » Sat May 29, 2010 6:55 pm

BD:

Rats... and I thought that I was starting to get it..... I kinda thought the same thing... that if the battery was connected correctly and it was showing a discharge, the ammeter has to be reversed... btdt.... :oops: but still being electrically challenged, I kinda became unsure again. Thanks for clarifying that. :)
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Re: 59 Cub - ammeter shows charge when stopped

Postby Bigdog » Sat May 29, 2010 7:36 pm

The only way the ammeter reads positive is when the generator is producing more current than the circuit load is using. In Smack's words - he connects the battery and gets a positive ammeter reading without turning anything on. That would indicate that the generator is putting out energy without even running.
If there is a load in the circuit and you connect the battery you will get a negative reading on the ammeter. We have all seen this when we turn on the lights when the tractor is not running. The only way to see a positive indication is for the ammeter to be wired backwards or the battery is charged in reverse polarity (a rare but not unheard of condition).
I believe he has a problem causing a current drain on the battery. But I also believe one of the two situations above also exists.
Connecting the battery to the circuit should cause no deflection of the ammeter unless there is a load somewhere in the circuit.
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Re: 59 Cub - ammeter shows charge when stopped

Postby Mike in Louisiana » Sat May 29, 2010 7:50 pm

Quote "When you say a switch might be on - the only one on the tractor is the light switch which is in the 'off' position"

How do you shut the engine off it it was running?
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Re: 59 Cub - ammeter shows charge when stopped

Postby Eugene » Sat May 29, 2010 8:41 pm

"When you say a switch might be on - the only one on the tractor is the light switch which is in the 'off' position"
Could also be a faulty switch.
New wiring harness is from Brillmans
More than likely the problem is not in the wiring itself. Something is not wired correctly - wired so that an appliance is "on".

It's not a direct short. If it were, either the fuse would blow or some of the wiring would smoke/burn.
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Re: 59 Cub - ammeter shows charge when stopped

Postby smack » Sun May 30, 2010 10:28 am

Bigdog wrote:Smack - I hate to diagree but if your battery is connected correctly and the ammeter indicates a charge just by connecting the battery to the circuit, the ammeter has to be wired backwards. Any load in the circuit will show up as a discharge not a charge.


Thanks again for everyone's thoughts. The ammeter wiring is as follows: 'CHARGE' side/post wire to regulator BAT terminal and DISCHARGE side/post wire to starting switch at starter per wiring instructions. Battery cables are: NEGATIVE post wire to starter, and POSITIVE post wire to ground. Also, I replaced the voltage regulator (this as is the wiring, all switches and guages new) with another known working one from my other Cub..same problem with ammeter needle moving to charge when battery is connected. Battering wiring must be correct as the starter works fine as do the lights. Again, the tractor is NOT running yet...still have not put fuel to it as I'm just trying to confirm all the electrical circuits first. Thoughts???
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Re: 59 Cub - ammeter shows charge when stopped

Postby Eugene » Sun May 30, 2010 12:17 pm

I replaced the voltage regulator (this as is the wiring, all switches and guages new) with another known working one from my other Cub..same problem with ammeter needle moving to charge when battery is connected.
So now you have two Cubs with the same symptoms?

Battery wiring must be correct as the starter works fine as do the lights.
Not a true statement. Starter works no matter which way the battery is grounded. Same with the lights.

Exchange the wires on the amp guage. That will solve the meter needle deflection problem.

Edit. New doesn't mean that it's functional. Disconnect the wire from the bat terminal at the voltage regulator and see if the problem still exists.

Voltage regulator. Did you check the stamped lettering under the screws before attaching the wires? Voltage regulators are not all the same. Terminal locations change with the manufacturer.
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Re: 59 Cub - ammeter shows charge when stopped

Postby Bus Driver » Sun May 30, 2010 12:44 pm

Smack -

"I'm just trying to confirm all the electrical circuits first. Thoughts???[/quote]"

Would you do me a favor please? I took time to type out a test procedure that I am sure will lead you nearer to finding the problem. Please tell me why you have not done this test?
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