Farmall Cub Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your Cub related issues.
Moderator: Team Cub
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.
At the suggestion of Bigdog, I am reposting a copy of this here instead. Thanks, Timex
I cannot express the appreciation I feel for your kind welcome. It seems kind of unreal that there is still people out there in the world who would take an interest in someone else’s tractor problem. I guess it just that I always felt a little foolish for being so attached to my tractor, even as a small boy. Patty was a constant in my world, and something I treasured deeply. My family looks forward to meeting you all and getting to know your tractors by "Name" and face in the near future. My wife thought I was nuts for staying up late to write the story out, but I wanted to do it so I don't forget more the details. It was written quickly and should probably be corrected here and there. She called it my apostil.
Now for the real purpose of this post. Patty seems to have more problems than I had hoped she would have. It has been getting me down a little since I am not sure how to go about it all or where to start. I don't want to make more mistakes on her. The first thing has to do with her using oil and smoking a fair amount. She was not used a lot over the years, but it appears that the first twenty years of sitting and now the later twenty of occasional use at best over long periods must have done something to her. When we open the oil fill cap at idle, oil splashes out the tub some. A little smoke is seen all the time, but upon taking off a light blue cloud fills the sky. The second issue has to do with the clutch. It appears unevenly worn, so it chatters when pressed in have way and cannot be adjusted right. This has been this way for years since we have been afraid to take her apart to that degree.
I am asking for your advice on what to do. Likely I am not posting this at the right spot, so please forgive me moderators. You are welcome to repost this question elsewhere if you like. So my question is what to do about the smoking problem and the clutch? I don't want to fix outside things and not have her running well. The transmission looks new. So it mainly involves new rings and pistons? The oil pressure stays above 30psi and jumps to 40psi upon throttling her up. So that looks good. Do we put in new aluminum pistons with the rings? She the block be bore out and totally redone or simply do the minimum? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Is there a way to safely enhance the engine while doing this for better performance? Hope I gave you enough information about the situation. Thanks in advance. Take care, Timex
P.S. We have the Clubfest at Cecil's on our Calendar. The family is hoping to attend if we can make it, my wife and daughters can bring some baked goods for you all to try out.
More information can be found at this post: http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=55144
Hey Timex, this is exactly the right place on the forum to post your questions. On the smoking part I will say this, get a can of SeaFoam and dump it in your fuel tank and run it. I found this stuff will clean up your engine's innards. I can't help much with ther clutch problem.
As for Cecil's Cubfest, Definitely be there with the family and Patty. You will be glad you went and Ed will be glad you brought the baked goods .
Oil splashing out the oil fill pipe. Check the amount of oil in the crank case. Thinking it's over full.
Suggest a complete engine tune up, including compression test. Try the SeaFoam as Bill suggests.
Currently thinking the engine just needs to be worked. Oil pressure is good. As long as the tractor does what you want, I would use it as is. The engine has to be completely torn down and measured before making any decissions on it's needs for an overhaul.
Clutch. Usual procedure is to split the tractor - find out what you need parts wise then order parts. If they can split the tractor at a Cubfest, at a minimum, I would have on hand a new throwout bearing, clutch disk and pilot bushing.
I have an excuse. CRS.
Actually I think many of us here would think that anyone who doesn't have that kind of attachment to their tractor is kinda weird.... And as for being interested in other people's tractor problems, that is what makes this forum so different from any other on the net .. period. So many of our members have a strong family tie to their Cubs or have great memories from they youth from whatever tractor source and apply that to their love of Cubs and other old iron. Some of us have other reasons/needs for our Cubs and because they are such interesting little critters they kind of sneak up on you and you wake up one morning totally addicted to them. You will find also many of us have names for our Cubs and in many cases personal reasons for those names. Oh, and your better half is not alone, I think many of our spouses think we are not just a little but a lot nutz when it comes to our Cubs. However, the friendships that have been built up over the years extend to our spouses and families as well and can be evidenced by how far some of us are willing to travel just to spend a day or two with other Cubbers at CubFests and other Gatherings.
I put Sea Foam in the gas tank as well as in the crankcase. It helps clean out a lot of gunk plus it cleans up the valves nicely. It will smoke a bit as the Sea Foam is introduced, but after a bit you can see and hear the engine smoothing out and running better. It is amazing. Got me sold.
Splashing is probably indicative as Eugene suggests of probably too much oil. Here is a link to the Lubrication Section of the Owner's Manual, in this case a 1947 edition.
I would suggest reading the Owner's Manual just to refresh the information.
Also if you have that good oil pressure, you probably don't have any piston or even ring problems, I would suspect that much of the smoking will be cured simply by cleaning up the gunk with Sea Foam. I also would recommend cleaning the Vent Tube from the Crankcase to the Oil Bath Filter. That will help. A good oil change with a new filter element would be advised as well. General maintenance as described in the Owner's Manual would be a good idea. Once completed and you have run Patty for a while you can then have more information to better judge her condition. As far as redoing the engine to improve/enhance performance will probably yield little difference over cost. IMHO it is largely a waste of resources unless the engine really needs a complete rebuild, and if it gets to that point, then sure why not.. if that is what you prefer.
Getting Patty to Cecil's would be the best plan. That way you will have access to a whole whack of folks you will be ready and able to help you work through Patty's troubles. You may be surprised at who all might be there and I can guarantee that you will enjoy yourself and you will be making some great friends.
Smoke from your exhaust is not that serious an issue if you have good oil pressure, which you do. The question is does the tractor still have the power to do what you want it to do? Just keep an eye on your dip stick oil level each time you use the tractor so you do not run the engine low on oil. A little oil added now and then to the crankcase is not a big deal. As others have suggested, the rings may be stuck some and not sealing properly and that is why seafoam in the gas may free them up and improve their ability to seal. I would also add some seafoam to the crankcase oil. After about 25 hours of operation, I would drain the crankcase and install a new filter.
Oil splashing out the fill pipe could be the result of excessive blow-by. If more air is coming out than normal, it will tend to carry out more oil. If you have any luck reducing the blow-by with Sea Foam, it may help this problem as well.
Thanks Barnyard for the suggestion to use SeaFoam, it seems that all of you are believers in this magic stuff, and for the encouragement to go to Cecil's. I will give SeaFoam a try and will be tickled if it helps. Hopefully he (Cecil) knows that a whole lot of Cubbers are going to show up at his place with Cub's, plows and discs.... I agree with Eugene's thoughts, start out with the basic and go from there. Makes sense, even to me. I am going to look for the parts for the clutch, a neighbor of mine who works on tractors for a living told me after doing me the favor of looking inside Patty's clutch area that the clutch is worn unevenly. This is not shocking to me as we felt it in the peddle twelve years ago before my dad sold her. The first few years after being sold, she was been driven occasionally by children as toy and then parked away in a typical, dusty barn basement.
Rudi, I really appreciated your thoughts on the tractor affection side of things. It is very amazing to me that there is a whole lot of us out here. I guess without the Internet and forums like this we simply did not know that there were lots of others attached to their tractors as well.
My wife has been real supportive of it all, since she knew what the tractor meant to me and what a sore spot it had been over the year every time I thought of having lost Patty forever. So my wife has been very willing to put up with this expenditure even though it was not budgeted at this time. The family really enjoyed PA's Rough and Tumble. All the greasy, old, smoky machines and the mechanics or engineers as they are called that make them all run, is enough to thrill anyone. I am even more inclined to be impressed since it is beyond me how those old things work. I imagine many of those have names as well. At the same time, I kind of feel bad about what it is all going to cost us to get Patty back in shape. Spending this much money on something for myself is not somethign I usually do. I had to pay a fair amount for her. Now realizing what the parts cost, it is a wonder that anyone fixes up old tractors to try and sell them. I was talking with my wife about the things I am discovering that Patty needs, and said the obvious that even if we sold Patty, we could not get all the money back that we are going to invest in her. She said, "We are never going to sell Patty". My only thought was, "Amen" to borrow the expression. We just got home in November from giving the last five plus years in medical\humanitarian work with our church mission program in central America. Getting things going again in this economy has been a challenge. At the same time, it is simply a miracle that Patty was found and could be bought back by us. What if she would have been sold while we were gone? In the end we are very happy that it all has worked out so well. Patty is home to stay! Hopefully when my son who is now fourteen has children, they can enjoy her too. It will be great if we can get her running better without having to do the engine rebuild thing. It makes me almost faint, just thinking of ripping that motor apart. It’s kind of like the heart of Patty or something, plus all the bolts are likely rusted in place by now. Most of the motors I have taken apart in shop classes back in high school never ran right again. The poor people that donated their lawnmowers hoping for a cheap repair were in for a real surprise.
Thanks Jim, it looks just like you mentioned in your post. From what I remember, there was a fair amount of air coming out, however, the part I don't know is what you all consider normal on an old tractor like this. The other thing I don't know about it, is what is normal as far as power. She is the only Cub I ever got to know well. My grandfather had a beautiful white and yellow one when I was little. We drooled over its shinny paint. He had a woods mower on the bottom and used it all around the farm. It is a shame it got sold by the family after he died. That one had more power I think than our cub. It may have been a seventies model.
When we checked the oil, it was rather low on the dipstick. About half way down in the low area. I believe it was still spitting out when it was that low. We are going to change the filter and oil to see what happens. It seemed that a lot of air was coming out and/or a blue type of vapor. So I don't know what that means...let’s hope the rings are just stuck. I don't think Patty has much more that 300 or 400 hrs. of use in her life time. What is the normal life between rebuilds on an engine like this? I know it is hard to say with the years that have passed by. Another question, how do I get the spark plugs out? They look like they have been in for about 20 yrs. and are very rusty in their sockets. The other thing I noticed in addition to the messed up electrical system, is a hole worn through one of the spark plug cables.
How much SeaFoam do I dump in the gas tank? Does it matter how much gas is in the tank? What about the crank case? Sorry for all the questions. I am going to get a bottle on Tuesday at NAPA if they have it. Likely it will say on the bottle, I just didn't know if you follow what it says for Farmall Cub's. Thanks so much in advance. Have a great Labor Day!
Last edited by Timex on Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I generally use an ounce to a gallon of gas or the whole can for a full tank. Read the can for crank case use.
To know how much fuel is in your tank, a lot of us have fuel level sticks given to us by Rick Prentice. You can easily make one from a paint stick. Here is the stick and dimensions:
Put your marks at these distances
1 gallon = 1 3/4"
2 gallon = 2 5/8"
3 gallon = 3 7/16"
4 gallon= 4 5/16"
5 gallon = 5 5/16"
6 gallon = 6 1/4"
7 gallon = 7 1/2"
Someone at Cecil's may have one to copy from.
Last edited by Barnyard on Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
To remove the plugs, I would put a good amount of penetration oil around them and let it soak for a few days, adding some every day. A lot of us here believe in Kroil, but another brand will get the job done.
After a few days, try removing them using a fair amount of pressure. Hopefully, they will come out easily.
In the middle of every difficulty lies opportunity. - Albert Einstein
Deep South CubFest
February 13 & 14, 2015
If he comes to Cubfest Northeast, he will get the real deal...not a copy.
MD, Deep Creek Lake
"1950 Something" Farmall Cub
1977 International Cub w/FH
1978 International Cub
1948 Farmall Super A
1951 Farmall Super C w/FH
One thing to keep in mind, the rusty and stuck parts didn't get rusty and stuck in a day. Don't expect them to get unstuck in a day either.
Start with a can penetrating oil. Spray some around each spark plug. Do this every day for several days. While you are waiting for that to soak in, do the same to any other rusty bolt on the whole tractor, even if it is not a part you expect to work on in the near term. Be sure to hit the screws on the grill side extensions (the dog legs) and both sides of the front axle where you set the width. While you wait for the penetrant to soak in, remove and clean the crankcase vent, a small tube the connects the front of the engine block to the intake tube of the air cleaner. Also be sure the passage into the block is open. Run a piece of wire into it to ream it out while the tube is removed. Running the tractor during this let-it-soak stage won't hurt anything.
You will probably find that the spark plugs will not be that hard to remove, as the rust rarely gets past the spark plug gaskets. Once the plugs are out, dump a little SeaFoam (or whatever overhaul in a can) straight into each cylinder. Let it soak in for a couple days. Then start it up(You will probably want it outside when you start it.), get it good and warm then do an oil and filter change. With this change, add the SeaFoam to the oil and gas, using the mixture rates on the can.
Keep a long term perspective on this project. Even if you decide the engine needs to be overhauled, you don't need to do it immediately. As long as it runs reasonably well, you can still use it and have fun with it. Some of the bigger ticket repairs can wait until more money is available. If it really has few hours on it as you believe, the engine repair may be less expensive than a full rebuild. You don't know until it is apart and inspected what needs replacing. You may only need new piston rings rather than reboring, new pistons etc.
Thanks for all the great replys and the gas measure stick idea\offer, that is really neat. We will work on this issues and see how she runs after that.
Timex, You'll be amazed at what can be done at a Cubfest. You should really try to make it to Cecil's. Ralph's Cubs and TM Tractor (sponsors at the bottom of the page) are excellent sources of new and used parts. If you develop an idea of what needs to be done at the Cubfest, you can get most of those parts ahead of time. There will be plenty of knowledgeable help there to assist you. Cecil probably has a compression guage that can be used to get an idea of engine condition too.
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
I was looking in the cabinet yesterday and found 2 gas tank gauge sticks. I bet I could hold one for you. Bob I do not have a compression gauge but I know where to get one.
Who is online