Steering question for the Pros

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Steering question for the Pros

Postby Mr E » Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:13 pm

Matt & I got ambitious and decided we would cut our mechanical teeth on the mower cub with the bad steering. We removed the axle and took the steering housing off the tractor.
We then replaced both bushings, both seals and new gaskets. We had a replacement gear that was much tighter than the original on the shaft. After reassembly, we then discovered that the replacement gear was a 21 tooth while the original was a 24 tooth. (Thanks to BigDog for helping us with this!) :oops:

So we had to put the old worn gear back in. We know we have to go back into it; I have a 24 tooth replacement from Mr. Ralph. The steering is very snug when you turn the wheels, thanks to the new bushings. My concern and question to you guys is that I have about 1/2 round of loose play in the steering wheel. Will the gear take care of most of that, or do I possibly also need a new steering shaft with the worm gear? Haven't hear much about these be replaced, so I am jut wondering. These is also "wobble" of the front wheels, which I assume is due to the worn gear.

Your thoughts are much appreciated.

Roy
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Re: Steering question for the Pros

Postby salamonius » Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:58 pm

Mine was doing the same thing about half a turn on the wheel before it would actually turn the wheel. I fixed mine by adding a washer to the bottom of the steering gear nut and making sure it was tightened down properly. Not too tight tho!....good luck

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Re: Steering question for the Pros

Postby coppersmythe » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:09 pm

you just helped me too , jason! i have the same 1/2 turn slop. the steering is high on the list. thanks from the soggy bayous and swamps of south louisiana..........................
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Re: Steering question for the Pros

Postby challenger » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:33 pm

Side play on both the worm gear and helical cut gear may develop because side thrust is generated whenever the steering wheel is turned due to the helical cut nature of the gears. Any side to side movement of the gears translates into free play at the steering wheel. Remove the side play but don't bind the gears.
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Re: Steering question for the Pros

Postby redfin » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:40 pm

Not saying this is the problem , but you might also check for play in the steering wheel shaft at the mounting base. When the steering wheel is turned does the steering shaft move in and out of the housing. There should be a thrust washer in there that acts as a spacer to prevent this. This may account for some of the play in the wheel. good luck :D
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Re: Steering question for the Pros

Postby Mr E » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:42 pm

challenger wrote: Remove the side play but don't bind the gears.


Challenger, how do you remove the side play?
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Re: Steering question for the Pros

Postby Boss Hog » Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:00 pm

Roy I am guessing that the new bushings have taken care of the up and down and side to side movement of the steering gear shaft, the one that the lower steering arm bolt to. On the steering shaft that the steering wheel bolts to , will most likely need to be replaced as well as the 24 tooth gear.

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Re: Steering question for the Pros

Postby challenger » Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:53 pm

Roy,

It depends on the amount of end play. If considerable, I would try to find a washer the right thickness that will fit on the shaft end or file or grind a washer down to the proper thickness. Fender washers are thinner than regular washers and can be drilled out to fit on the shaft. If only slight end play exists, I have used whatever thin steel stock was handy, including steel canning jar lids. Or you can opt for manufactured shims. I now have various thickness of manufactured blank shim stock on hand that I use to make shims. Check with Napa or McMaster/Carr:http://www.mcmaster.com/#shims-and-shim-stock/=9pgz77
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Re: Steering question for the Pros

Postby Gary Dotson » Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:07 am

Roy, it's all about the process of elimination. Have Matt work the steering wheel for you while you watch for the lost motion. Is the steering wheel shaft moving in & out of the seal? If so, you have a worn (or missing) thrust washer on the bottom of the worm gear. Is the pittman arm moving up & down? If so, that is adjusted out by the castle nut on bottom of the steering gear shaft. Also look for worn tie rod ends and for looseness in the steering arm mountings at the spindle tops. I've never seen enough internal wear to cause the amount of play that you say you have.
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Re: Steering question for the Pros

Postby Mr E » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:50 pm

Gary Dotson wrote:Roy, it's all about the process of elimination. Have Matt work the steering wheel for you while you watch for the lost motion. Is the steering wheel shaft moving in & out of the seal? If so, you have a worn (or missing) thrust washer on the bottom of the worm gear. Is the pittman arm moving up & down? If so, that is adjusted out by the castle nut on bottom of the steering gear shaft. Also look for worn tie rod ends and for looseness in the steering arm mountings at the spindle tops. I've never seen enough internal wear to cause the amount of play that you say you have.


Gary, the shaft is moving in and out of the seal. I know the thrust washer is there, but it must be worn. One other thing I'll replace. Thanks! :{_}:
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Re: Steering question for the Pros

Postby Gary Dotson » Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:29 am

Happy to be of service, Roy!
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Re: Steering question for the Pros

Postby John C » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:25 pm

I replaced all that stuff on my Cub at Stonethrow, but I still have a fair amount of play in the steering. After reading other posts, I had the impression that the big nut at the bottom of the steering housing needed to be tightened. These instructions came from Ralph, I believe:

To Tighten play in the steering: Loosen the bolt on the clamp – 5/8 bolt and 11/16 nut. Turn steering wheel all the way to the left and put 1 inch wrench on the nut and have someone turn the steering wheel to the right – nut will tighten. Repeat as necessary.

I haven't tried it yet though....
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Re: Steering question for the Pros

Postby Mr E » Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:26 pm

Gary Dotson wrote:Happy to be of service, Roy!


Gary and guys,
Took the steering shaft out today. Both thrust washers are in place, and actually look real good. The one below the worm is almost 1/4 thick. Put it back together, still have that 1/2 round of play and the shaft still moves up and down in the seal. How thick is that washer supposed to be??

John, the big nut you referred to seems to be nice and tight. Yes, Ralph gave me that same set of instructions. That arm does not move up and down, so I am assuming it is tight enough.
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Re: Steering question for the Pros

Postby Yogie » Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:45 pm

Mr. Roy, the gasket under the steering shaft retainer serves as a shim so you might try it with this removed just to see what happens. If it helps your going to need a little thicker washers on the shaft or add a 3rd thin one. If removing the gasket is enough seal it with a thin coat of permatex of some type.
Just something easy to try out... :roll:
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Re: Steering question for the Pros

Postby Boss Hog » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:08 pm

Mr E wrote:
Gary Dotson wrote:Happy to be of service, Roy!


Gary and guys,
Took the steering shaft out today. Both thrust washers are in place, and actually look real good. The one below the worm is almost 1/4 thick. Put it back together, still have that 1/2 round of play and the shaft still moves up and down in the seal. How thick is that washer supposed to be??

John, the big nut you referred to seems to be nice and tight. Yes, Ralph gave me that same set of instructions. That arm does not move up and down, so I am assuming it is tight enough.


You will need to loosen the bolt that holds the pitman arm on before you tighten the nut on the pitman shaft, then re tighten the
Bolt after the adjustments have been made. When you get it right I assure it will not move up and down. You did not leave the brass washer out did you?
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