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Foot Pounds Torque

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Eugene
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Foot Pounds Torque

Postby Eugene » Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:16 pm

I am looking at opertating a portable generator, using the Cub PTO as the power source.

How many foot pounds of torque does the Cub 60 cubic inch engine develop at 1200 RPM?

Thanks

Eugene

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Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:25 pm

Don't know that question, but according to posts I 've seen on different forums, 3 to 4k is about maximum generator output for a cub.
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Postby WKPoor » Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:20 pm

I've read its about 2hp for every 1kw.

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Postby johnbron » Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:15 pm

My 5/6?KW generator runs off of a 9HP Vanguard Briggs. I dont know shlitz beer about them formulas though. Maybe its the RPMs that make the difference.
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Thanks

Postby Eugene » Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:20 am

Thanks for the input.

I am looking at purchasing a 10KW generator. The specs call for 35ft/lbs at 3600 (generator) rpm. I think the Cub is under powered for this generator. My other three tractors are in the 30 - 35 drawbar HP range and over powered for the generator.

I'll have to do some more math - and a lot of thought. It's going to take one big pulley to crank 3600 rpms at the generator with a pto speed of 200 rmps - just off engine idle speed.

The reason I was thinking about using the Cub is the PTO speed.

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Postby beaconlight » Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:31 am

Eugene the cubs run any where from 8 1/2 HP in the earlier ones to 14 in the later ones so that should be part of your Equation. Full load is at
1600 RPM. You had best work over the Governor if you want to run a generator. Quick response to a change in load is a good thing to have.

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Re: Thanks

Postby Ike » Sat Jan 08, 2005 9:31 am

Eugene wrote:Thanks for the input.

I am looking at purchasing a 10KW generator. The specs call for 35ft/lbs at 3600 (generator) rpm. I think the Cub is under powered for this generator. My other three tractors are in the 30 - 35 drawbar HP range and over powered for the generator.

I'll have to do some more math - and a lot of thought. It's going to take one big pulley to crank 3600 rpms at the generator with a pto speed of 200 rmps - just off engine idle speed.

The reason I was thinking about using the Cub is the PTO speed.


Eugene,
Are your bigger tractors really overpowered or do they simply have a potential for more power than needed? It seems to me that the tractor will only use the amount of power demanded by the load. It seems like it would be better to have an overpowered tractor loafing under the load than an underpowered tractor beating its guts out trying to handle it. Also, none of the tractors are going to have as much power just off idle as they will at working range speeds. Your horsepower ratings are at full throttle.

Just a thought.

Ike

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Footpounds Torque

Postby Bill V in Md » Sat Jan 08, 2005 9:56 am

Eugene,

I don't have a horsepower/torque curve for the Cub, but my rough calculations indicate that the cub will deliver about 26 ft-lb torque at 1800 rpm. If you gear it up to 3600 rpm, the torque will decrease to roughly 1/2 of what it produces at 1800 rpm.

BTW, does anyone have a horsepower/torque versus rpm curve for the C60 Farmall Cub Engine?
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Postby moe1942 » Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:00 am

As prviously stated, the rough guide for gen engines is 2 HP per KW.

Also, my 69 Cub owners manual says fast idle is 2100 RPM. I have not seen this posted since I have been at the Cub forums. I usually see 1600 and 1800 for the early model Cubs.

Can someone confirm that my manual stated RPM is correct?

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Postby beaconlight » Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:54 am

If you look further you will see " Engine speed (maximum full load governed) around 1800 RPM if I remember right.. You will also see a number for Draw bar horse power and PTO horse power. PTO horse power is the number he has to go by. We still don't know the year of his engine so the numbers we are throwing around while they are true, for this particular application are just might be and could be. Might be and could be are related to the 3 worst words in the english Language, Shoulda, Woulda and Coulda.

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Postby moe1942 » Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:23 pm

Bill,

I checked my manual. I was wrong. High idle is 2000 RPM. You are right. Full load RPM is 1800 RPM. So much for my memory.

If someone set their high idle (no load) engine speed at 1800 then that might account for a loss of power complaint. Whatever the governed RPM is the no load would have to be higher. Correct me if I am wrong...

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Postby beaconlight » Sat Jan 08, 2005 2:06 pm

Mo you are right. strange you should chec your book. I did the same thing. I have 4 manuals on different versions on the basic Cub 60 engine.
The first is an IT shop service manual (available at my local IH case) dealer. The origional were bore 2 5/8 stroke 2 5/8 which maths out to about 60 Cubic inches, therefore the name. 60C. These were manufactured 1947 to 1979 from what I see. There were various improvements and an increase of speed from 1600 RPM full load to 1800 RPM and the later ones are rated 9.87 Draw bar horse power and 10.08 PTO hourse power. They had a breaker gap of 0.020, and valve clearance of 0.015 cold.
another section of this book covers the Numbered Low Boys. The IC Cub 154LO-BOY, 185 LO-BOY and the 185 LOW-BOY. The bore was the same 2 5/8 in but the stroke was increased to 2 3/4 in. Not a major difference but it gave an increase in HP. New 11.8 draw bar HP and 13.5 PTO. Another contributer to this increase is the Engine full load change to 2200 RPM in the 154 and 2300 RPM in the 184 and 185 as well as the change from the IH carb to the large capicity Zenith.
The UC-60 power unit and No. 64 Thresher- Harvester use the long stroke engine but are rated at 2500 RPM full load.
Gets involved does it not, trying to answer the how much power does it have Question.
When we double the speed to match the generator we half the available power.


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Postby moe1942 » Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:57 am

Bill,

The plot thickens. My manual says I have a 2 5/8 ths bore and 2 3/4 in stroke. From your post that equates to the numbered Cubs. I also have a Zenith carb.

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Postby Jim Becker » Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:21 pm

Every reference I have (including '48 I&T Red Book and I&T shop manual) lists B&S as 2 5/8 x 2 3/4. My calculator says that is 60ci.

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Foot Pounds of Torque

Postby Eugene » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:25 pm

Researching several small engine manuals provide torque/horsepower curves for engines of various manufacture (Briggs, Clinton). Generally the torque to horsepower ratio for small engines is 3 or 4 ftlbs torque to 1 horsepower. If the same torque/horspeower curve holds true for the Cub (?), the 10KW (35ftlbs @ 3600 rpm) generator would come in at about twice the Cub's rated horsepower.

Have a couple of other power sources available. More research and more long hand math. Damn kids any way. When I went to school I had charts, formulas, pencil and paper to figure out math problems. I pose a problem to my son who is majoring in engineering. He looks at me like I'm some kind of idiot, pulls out his calculator, punches in some numbers. Presto the answer. Sure makes me feel old.


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