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Fuel Bowl Level???

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WKPoor
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Fuel Bowl Level???

Postby WKPoor » Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:07 am

Well guys I'm ready to open up another hornets nest. Here goes so don't throw to many things at me. After all this prickin around I decided to consult dear old dad, you know the drill, the old man don't know anything right :lol: . His resume is pretty impressive though with over 45yrs experience as an engineer for Generous Motors as he likes to put it. Basically he has been there done that and many times before he can come up with pactical solutions to about anything. So I ran the deal with my plugs past him and I mentioned what most of you guys kept harpin on me about having an overfueling issue likely attributted to high bowl level. Well here is what he said: Yeh its good to set up your correct fuel height on the bench but once that carbs on a running engine the fuel dynamics is such that it won't matter that much then. As long as it ain't running out the top and there is enough to satisfy the appeitite and the high and low are adjusted close I'm most likely not overfueled. That fuel is sloshing around in there with vibration, attitude,stopping and starting and turning so much that whatever bench level you had is out the door. He noted that fuel level in carbs on cars was set up to account for angle of the engine in the frame and not have the fuel come sloshing out the vent under normal conditions. After that its up to the jets to control mixture. I thought about if you had a clear plastic bowl to see through what the fuel might look like in there. Its probably pretty violent so that at any one givin time the fuel level would be all over the spectrum. As long as its in there and it ain't running out don't get to worked up about it. Your probably making faces about now trying to figure out what to throw at me but I'll tell you it makes some sense.

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Postby Virginia Mike » Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:44 am

When I was 16 years old my dad was so dumb I could hardly stand to be around him. By the time I got to 25, it suprised me how much the old man learned. :)

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Postby moe1942 » Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:10 am

WK,

You are correct.

The short version is; you have an adequate fuel supply if the main jet is always submerged in fuel, and too much if it nears the bowl gasket at rest on level ground.

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Postby George Willer » Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:49 am

Bill,

There's no need for anyone to throw anything but some of us have tried to determine what is different about your Cub. Most Cubs, and all of them that are in good condition don't have the problem you're having.

We've tried to find what is different about yours without reinventing the wheel over fuel octane or strange timing.

I don't know your father and I'm not an engineer, just an old geezer with 70 years experience, but if you get a chance maybe you could ask him some other way to adjust power mixture on a non adjustable carburetor?

The cure for your problem will turn out to be some simple thing when you look at the right thing (like the carburetor for example). You're in the best position to do the looking since the rest of us are at long distance for the solution to your overfueling problem.
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Postby Cub-Bud » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:20 am

Has the hole in the end of the main metering jet been enlarged/drilled out by someone mistakingly thinking it would solve a fuel starvation problem :?:
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Postby Bigdog » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:39 am

It should be noted here that the problem Bill (WKPoor) is talking about is with his Farmall H, not his cub. This H has a freshly rebuilt engine with significantly more compression than the average H on the farm.
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Postby beaconlight » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:31 am

The jets and needle have fibre gaskets. Are they leaking ? Are the threads stretched by a previous Huggy Bear. Thing like this are not obvious but have to be concidered.

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Fuel problem

Postby Eugene » Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:36 am

I'm with Beaconlight. I still think you have a problem inside the carburators. I would do the float level check as per Carl Lunker on the tractor then again on the bench. And I would pull the carburators apart and tripple check everything.

Why not swap carburators with one off a good running tractor.

WKPoor
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Postby WKPoor » Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:38 am

Thanks to all who have taken the time to read some of the lengthy posts regarding this issue. I do believe that the Cub's problem is an over fueling issue, it always cold started just a little to easy. I'll tackel that later this year when I get back together. With the H now, that carb came as an overhauled unit from valu-bilt tractor. That leaves much room for error in such that As I stated earlier that I don't know if the components are correct for the application. I did go through it myself but I just did the basics of a general rebuild. If the venturi is the wrong size or the main jet wrong then who knows from there. I'll have to get some technical data to check that out. Anyway, for now, I have a generous supply of AvGas which has for now solved the problem. Heck, I'm trying the stuff in everything, chainsaws, 4wheelers, mowers and whatever else that doesn't have a catylitic converter or oxygen sensor!! :lol: :lol: Earl's 4wheeler has been fouling plugs this winter and the young punks say he running it to slow not burning the carbon out. I say AVGAS!!! :lol: :lol:

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Postby Cub-Bud » Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:34 pm

Bigdog wrote:It should be noted here that the problem Bill (WKPoor) is talking about is with his Farmall H, not his cub. This H has a freshly rebuilt engine with significantly more compression than the average H on the farm.


Well then, that is a horse of a different color, isn't it :?: Sorry :oops:
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Postby Jim Becker » Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:47 pm

Going back you your original problem statement "That plug was pulled out after only about 5min run time and the engine was missing so bad it quit on its own.", I doubt that sloshing fuel in the carburetor was a factor. In 5 minutes did you even move the tractor?

The bottom line is still that there is no reason a Cub (or most of the other engines you mentioned) need an octane rating higher than the cheapest fuel on the market. Using AVGAS is compensating for some existing problem, not fixing it.

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Postby cjpenny89 » Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:46 pm

Well my 1948 H has fire crater pistons and the good gas head on it and I am sure with a total rebuild from the head to the crank and the over bore fire crater pistons I have more hp than I ever did before. With that said you are describing the same problem I had with my plugs. I did everything under the sun like you said. Then the one day I fixed my fuel level as shown by lurker carl and well I already told you it fixed my problem.
I hope you just try this and check it, it only takes a few minutes to check.
If it is not your problem great but untill you check these things out please don't aurgue that they are not causing the problem. I have done this in the past insisting on that it can not be what I was told and after a lot of headach and time and money spent on other things it comes back to the one thing I just didn't want to check becasue I knew better. But if you are all gong hoe about aviator gas the use it and don't worry about the problem.


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