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Interesting thing in the shop class today

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Scott
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Interesting thing in the shop class today

Postby Scott » Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:40 pm

One of the kids at school is working on a Ford NAA and he got the battery charger and pluged it to the battery and put it on 12 v with assist. He didnt get a foot back from the front of the tractor and BOOM the top of the battery blew up. There was a large amount of words said that we shall not mention right now. It scared the living crap out of everyone and my teacher said that the kid looked like he needed a blood transfusion. The Moral is never put a 6v battery on 12v
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Postby Bigdog » Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:49 pm

Inattention to what you are doing is what gets you in trouble every time.
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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

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Postby Steve Butram » Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:52 pm

Scott , You just learned a valuable lesson that wasn't on the lesson plan .I hope that everyone in the class was wearing their proper safety equipment . That is the reason why school corperations are doing away with shop classes that require hands on with vehicles. The students in this area are lucky to see a car in the shop class . The teacher in my opinion is taking money under faulse pretences. He will only allow them to use certain pieces of the shop equipment if he feels like getting off his lazy --- to supervise.He only took the shop teacher position so he could coach athletics Steve
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Postby Jeff M » Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:39 pm

12V w/assist on a 6V? No wonder it blew up. Fords of that vintage are positive ground, too--not that it makes any difference. Instructor must have been nappin'...you guys got lucky.
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Postby Buzzard Wing » Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:16 pm

I do like that vintage FORD!
Batteries are often taken for granted, but they are very dangerous! (as if lead and acid in one container is not enough!)
I carry a 12v battery pack in my truck.... I won't jump a car with jumper cables anymore after I heard of one exploding from a jump. Hard to remember that ground should not go to the negative post, but to a chassis ground too.

Charging batteries give off an explosive gas.....

Since I have a camper with a 12v system and battery, I bought the new technology charger for that battery. The charger was $50, but it will even test an alternator and de-sulfate a battery. It automatically drops the charge rate as it finishes and WILL GIVE AN ERROR FOR REVERSE POLARITY! Pretty much fool proof. (I won't use it for my electro tank)

Probably a good lesson to learn young! You will ALWAYS be careful around batteries now I bet.


I found this web site to be very well done and has everything you ever wanted to know about batteries:
http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq.htm
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Postby Scott » Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:17 pm

The Teacher was helping someone else and when we heard the bang and we all went running. He took the time to explain to the whole class what happen and to show us the difference between 6v and 12v. Dont nag on him to much, he is a fellow cub owner :wink:
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Postby Little Indy » Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:35 pm

Don't be too hard on the instructor, unless he did not warn the class that lead batteries give off hydrogen gas when charging. I had my battery in the minivan explode when starting up the minivan. Fortunately I was near a Walmart. Fortunately it did not damage anything else except I can still see the scars in the hood (underside only, no dents). Battery boxes are a good idea. I occasionly see a tractor with no box.
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Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:15 pm

I used to instal and maintain Motorola 2 way radios. A customer came in for his annual routine and certification one day and I noticed he had a new battery and there were white spots on the underside of the hood. He stated thay had the hood open jump starting one of their diesels when the battey blew up, blowing the top clear across the 100 foot wide shop. Said they never did find the caps. Luckily no one was hurt, but he said he sure had a lot more respect for batteries after that.
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Postby johnbron » Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:42 pm

Buzzard Wing wrote:I bought the new technology charger for that battery. The charger was $50, but it will even test an alternator and de-sulfate a battery.



I have never heard of such a battery charger that would De-Sulfate a battery. Please tell us more about how this charger de-sulfate function works. :arrow:
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Postby Bigdog » Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:56 pm

JB - a lot of the newer pulse-mode battery chargers will ( or claim to be able to ) remove some sulfation. However, the only thing they really can remove is the loose sulfation. The hardened sulfation will not be affected. At best, it's a crap shoot in my book.
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Postby johnbron » Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:05 pm

Bigdog I kinda suspected something like that. I just could not fathom in my mind of any way that a battery charger could remove the sulfate crusted on the plates. If it could do that you would rarely ever have to replace a battery. :?:
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Postby John Niekamp » Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:26 pm

Scott,

Good lesson to be learned from this.

When I was about your age, maybe a even little younger, I had two batteries blow up in my eyes, on two different occasions. The first one was in a old Massey Harris tractor we had. I knew there was something wrong with the battery, just wouldn't take a charge. SO I decided to take it off of the charger and go and get a new one. I did ALMOST all the safety precautions, shut the charger off first, then I even unplugged the charger, took the negative lead off first on the block. Well On this old Massey Harris, the battery was under the gas tank (like many tractors) and there was no way to put the charger on both post with it still being in the tractor. I slide the battery out, so I could get access to the positive post and the negative cable was still connected to the block (neg. ground) so I had the neg. charge cable connected to the block and the positive was attached to the positive post, with the battery cable off of the post. Where it found a spark to explode it, still has me wondering.

Now thinking back it, Here I am just about 16 inches or so over the top of that battery. I can remember it blowing the top off the battery and acid and parts of the battery going all over me and in my eyes. Not to mention, it could have even caused the gas tank to blow.

I really think the only thing that save me eye sight was, we had some ducks and geese at the time, (now don't laugh) and I was just a few feet away from their watering tank chase them out and I DOVE in the tank and kept washing my eyes out in the stinky water full of duck and goose poop. :oops: I guess the stinky water neutralized the acid and saved my eyes. Well at least good enough until I got to the E.R.

The second time was several months later, when I was leaving school and my battery was dead on my car. BUT this time, I took ALL precautions (Safety glasses) and I also turned my head away, put the positive cable on first, then the neg. jumper lead to the engine. At thatr moment the positive lead jumped off of the battery post and caused a spark. This time I only had to take a good long shower and throw away my clothes.

ANYTIME, messing with a battery remember those safety glasses or goggles and take every precaution possible. No matter how much of a hurry one is in, it isn't worth losing your eye sight over. I WAS VERY LUCKY.

Oh BTW, how did the the kid come out? Hope he didn't have much more than a good scare. Accidents do happen to the best of us.

John Niekamp

PS: I don't know where that 52(?) Massey Harris, cant' think of which model it was now, but I have several stories about that piece of BLANK, where ever it's at now, but I sure hope it's resting in peace and rusting up darn good and tight!.

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Postby Buzzard Wing » Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:05 pm

Suppose the 'desulfate' part may actually be a marketing scam. They say they put high frequency pulses to the battery (plates) and it is supposed to knock the sulfate off the plates.
Could be some vodoo stuff, but it is intended mostly for deep cycle (that have been discharged too deeply too many times) and for possibly bringing back 'some' batteries from the dead. It did not work on a battery that someone gave me (he was told it was dead) ... but I did use the battery for the $5 core on the one for the camper, so it was not a total loss.
Since I did not buy a true 'deep cycle' battery for the camper (it is a marine deep cycle/starting battery) and not wanting to go to the expense (OK effort) to rig an isolator to charge the camper battery this charger seemed to be a cost effective way to charge the battery and other batteries around the yard. Mostly I was concerned about overcharging.
So far I am very happy with it. It a Vector brand that is pretty commonly available. Cheapest I found was Amazon (free shipping).
Could not find too much on a search, but a brief description here:

Vector Battery Charger — 2/6/12 Amp, 12 Volt

Automatic/high–frequency battery charger with 3–stage automatic rapid charging — 4 minutes charge to start. Uses high–frequency power conversion technology and digital smart control. 5–sec. alternator voltage check (good/bad indicator). Digital display. Short–circuit and reverse polarity protection (no spark). Built–in battery reconditioning (desulfate). Self–stored cables and clamps. 5–year limited warranty.
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Batteries.

Postby Eugene » Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:04 am

For several years I operated a battery extractor and battery charging station for my employer. Only had one battery explode. It was a 36 volt battery for fork lifts, weighing about 2200 lbs. I had just installed the battery in a fork lift. The lift operator connected the cables, hiss, bang. The explosion blew the top off one cell and ruptured two other cells. No injuries, scared the crap out of everyone.

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Postby cowboy » Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:43 am

:shock: :shock: Yep those batterys can go with a big bang. We were jump starting an excavator with a loader and the excavator battery blew. Those big cat batterys weigh about 110 lbs the mechinac and his helper got misted with acid and they had to bring out a water truck to wash down the excavator and loader. The battery was only about a year and a half old but the vibration in that big equment does bad thinga to batterys. The mechinac said one of the plates in it mustive shorted it out making a spark inside the battery.
Off topic but when I was a kid up north my uncle was putting gas in an 8n ford they had been working on it the tractors tool box was open and a wrench fell onto the battery and it all cought on fire. My cousin stoped my uncle from throwing water on it (which would have made the fire spread) Pushed it out of the barn and put it out with an fire extingusher without much damage. On the 8n the tractor tool box battery and gas tank are in an compartment just forward on the steering wheel. Accidents happen fast be carfull. :wink:
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