Rear Main Seal

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Rear Main Seal

Postby twotone » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:56 pm

I know about the rear main needing special attention to replace, but was wondering if IH maybe made something in the later years that just fit like should. In other words, are all C60 engines needing rear main seals getting the treatment so they will work?


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Re: Rear Main Seal

Postby Bob McCarty » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:10 pm

Tom, IH came out with a new retainer that is about $175. The seal that IH sells fits that retainer. Obviously, the refit that Rick Prentice started, and Phil Lenke is now doing is much, much less than that.

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Re: Rear Main Seal

Postby twotone » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:24 pm

Thanks Bob. It looks like the Phil Lenke way is the way to go.
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Re: Rear Main Seal

Postby Landreo » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:26 am

You can do a search on rear main seals and there is a discussion on the failure rate for the modified seal retainers. I believe the best success is to just do what IHC did originally, the proper seal in a round retainer. Measure your reatiner, if reasonable round, not much more than 0.007 to 0.01 inches out of round and then just put in the correct seal. No need for work arounds if the retainer is in good shape.
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Re: Rear Main Seal

Postby twotone » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:43 am

Thanks Landreo. That is certainly another option, but is seems the failure rate is pretty high.


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Re: Rear Main Seal

Postby Bob McCarty » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:54 am

The new seal that Case/IH sells does not fit the old retainer. When Rick Prentice was looking for a solution, he could not find a seal the correct diameter to fit the old retainer. That is why he came up with the process to enlarge the retainer opening and use an off the shelf seal that was the correct size. To my knowledge, there have been very few failures with these. The high failure rate is when the Case/IH seal is used in an old retainer and the staking/sealing process used to secure it fails and the seal leaks.

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Re: Rear Main Seal

Postby Rick Prentice » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:02 pm

I had pretty much made my mind up a while back to just bite my tongue and keep quiet, but the figures just don't add up in my mind. I know the reworked retainers by myself and Phil have to be close or over the 300 mark. Pretty much every retainer that came to us had the original or newer IH seal installed that leaked. Phil and or myself out of the 300+/- had an issue with maybe 3 or 4. Somehow the %'s speak for themselves. 4 out of 300= .013% and 300 out of 300= :? Most guys don't have calipers laying around and pretty much need a retainer yesterday :shock: You guys decide.

It's a reworked retainer with snapring and hightech sealant in my book, not a rubber coated seal that if you wipe a film of oil on it you can push it in and out with your fingers.

OK, I'm finished :||):

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Re: Rear Main Seal

Postby Landreo » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:32 pm

The failure rate is 1 out of 75. What was the failure rate for the original IHC rubber coated seals? I don't know but I expect alot less than 1 out of 75. I was walking past my pickup truck a few months ago and in the bed was a front engine seal reatiner that my son had left there, from a Honda Civic, and I decided to look at the seal. Aluminum retainer and had a rubber coated seal. So I looked at the vehicles in my driveway and the ones I could see with an aluminum front appeared to have a rubber seal, I know my 4Runner does since I have replaced it several times in the past 20 years. A rubber coated seal in an aluminum seal retainer is not new technology but apparently something that works, at least for Toyota, Honda, and IHC. My 4Runner has close to 300,000 miles, no seals have popped out yet. So why a workaround when all you have to do is use the technology that worked for many years in the cub engines.

I do not have stock in the seal company that makes rubber coated seals, don't sell seals, I, like others, am just trying to find a solution to the apparent problem of the rear seal retainer. The few books I looked at and the seal manufacturer's web sites all, without exception, recommend just the type of seal used by the IHC engineers, a rubber coated seal. It makes sense based on the expansion rate of the pot metal seal retainer. Those rubber coated seals were still used in the numbered series so they apparently worked for a long time.

Rubber coated seals are much more tolerant of an out of round bore, roughly twice that of a steel seal. However, there are limits to a rubber seal and they may not work with a severely distorted seal retainer nor are they immune from damage. Installed incorrectly, either the seal or the retainer, and there may be leaks.

All the calipers I have were less than $15. A worthy investment for anyone.


I truely do not understand some of the comments. There is more than one solution to leaking seals. I think I have a good solution from my originally arm chair quarterback look but now a real world look and trial, I have cubs with the new Harwall seal and they are leak free. A rubber coated seal is not snake oil nor unproven technology but an option that has a real work use and indication. Sometime in the next 40 years I expect they will harden and start to leak but I do not expect any will have the seal fall out of the retainer. What folks do with their cub and their seals is their business but it is useful to know what their options may be.
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Re: Rear Main Seal

Postby outdoors4evr » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:14 pm

I don't need to understand it. I had a leaking rear seal and sent it off to Phil. I put in the returned seal and it doesn't leak anymore.
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Re: Rear Main Seal

Postby DaveB » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:14 pm

Over the years Rick has done 3 retainers and seals for me, and all 3 tractors are still leak free. DaveB.
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Re: Rear Main Seal

Postby twotone » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:32 pm

My engine is a 1971 so is this considered a new style or old.


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Re: Rear Main Seal

Postby Rick Prentice » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:33 pm

Tom, yours probably has the R2 part number but I did as many R2's as I did R1's. The new retainer that sells for close to 200 still has the R2 number too. Without having your retainer in your hands and checking the bore, it's a gamble if you buy parts ahead of time, unless of course you just push it in and consider it good.

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Re: Rear Main Seal

Postby twotone » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:14 am

I hope nobody misunderstud me when I was talking failure rate. I was talking of using IH parts with an unworked retainer. There must have been quite a problem if someone went through the trouble of finding a workaround for leaky rear seals.


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Re: Rear Main Seal

Postby Rudi » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:16 am

Tom:

Yes there was. Rick spent a lot of time coming up with his fix and then did hundreds for members. I was going to have Rick do mine even with the higher shipping costs from Canada to Ohio because his solution was the only viable permanent fix. When Rick stopped doing it we all were pleased that Phil was willing to take it over. These two guys have spent a lot of time developing a fix for this continuing problem. As many of us are not familiar with the proper technique for staking seals, this fix solves that dilemma.
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Re: Rear Main Seal

Postby Little cub » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:52 am

Hi. I'm trying to fix my rear main seal issue with my IH cub. Is there any one who machines the retainer to fit a seal? I have try to replace it and of course like every one has said In other post they don't fit. Thanks. :lost:
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