Transmission (Updated)

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Harold R
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Transmission (Updated)

Postby Harold R » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:42 am

I finally had a few minutes to call my own yesterday, so I decided to do some work on the '56. I had previously gotten the motor back together, so I thought I'd focus on the transmission. Like a lot of the cub trannys, this one functioned well but had the "growl" in second gear. I have been saving a set of cub cadet gears for this tractor so I started with a good cleaning of the case. Steamed it good then chased all the threads and with compressed air, cleaned out all the oiling holes. Finished it off with some primer.
Image
After it dried I brought it in the shop to install new bearings,( except the mysterious, hard to find Torrington NB-35). :roll: I had never payed much attention to the oiling process of the bearings, but after a good discussion on it at DSCF, I gave it a closer look.
Image
If you'll notice the small screwdriver, it's in the oiling hole which is at the bottom of a pocket where the oil collects. The rear bearing for the input shaft has a small hole to receive the oil. However, in this particular case, (literally), you can see by the dark spot next to the oil hole on the bearing they did not match up. I'm reasonably sure it came this way from the factory. The bearing itself was shot. I'm going to make sure to line them up when I go back with it. There is a replacement for the Torrington NB-35, at least it's the same size, but it has a different needle set-up. I'm not 100% sure it will work, but I'll try it when it gets in. I tried to look on TM's site, but they're closed for a while until Lynn get back on her feet.
Last edited by Harold R on Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Transmission

Postby RaymondDurban » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:48 am

There have been recent discussions about those that have replaced that bearing, and the replacement does not have the oil hole. Attempts to make the hole yourself I believe will destroy the bearing in the process.

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Re: Transmission

Postby Harold R » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:14 am

I was told this replacement does have the oil hole. I'll call today to reconfirm.



Update...


When I called, the parts guy told me it was in so I went and got it. I does have the hole, but this bearing is about 1/8 longer.
I've installed it and have included several pics for you guys to look through. I don't think the 1/8 is going to matter much. The oil hole appears to be twice the size of the original bearing, and when installed, I can see at least 1/2 of the hole. The two things that have me concerned are the fewer rollers, and the open end. I know you have designs for speed and load. I'm not sure what kind of load, or torque is on the rear bearing during heavy pulling, or a big load on the PTO. I will say the input shaft turns very free and smoothly. Looking for two cent advice...... It's nothing to remove it in favor of a better idea. 8)

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Re: Transmission (Updated)

Postby Harold R » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:51 am

I added pics with the update.

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Re: Transmission (Updated)

Postby Rick Prentice » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:46 am

Harold, nice detailed pics. If it's any comfort to you, looking at this picture from TM
Image

I'd have to say the torque felt on the #5 second gear or the #7 first gear is mostly shared between the front and rear bearings when using those two power gears. I don't think there's that much side torque when using the pto.

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Re: Transmission (Updated)

Postby Rick Prentice » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:50 am

I know that pic shows the pinion lower shaft and gears, but the top mainshaft and gears are located directly above when in use (kinda centered between the front and rear bearings).
When I told my dad I've been misplacing things and doing stupid stuff----His reply---"It only gets better"

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Re: Transmission

Postby Jim Becker » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:04 am

Harold R wrote:I does have the hole, but this bearing is about 1/8 longer. I don't think the 1/8 is going to matter much. The oil hole appears to be twice the size of the original bearing, and when installed, I can see at least 1/2 of the hole.

The 1/8 longer would only be a problem if it keeps the shaft from moving back to the original position. If the front bearing/seal/retainer all go in correctly with no binding, you are OK.

I think your oil hole situation is also OK.

Harold R wrote:The two things that have me concerned are the fewer rollers, and the open end. I know you have designs for speed and load. I'm not sure what kind of load, or torque is on the rear bearing during heavy pulling, or a big load on the PTO. I will say the input shaft turns very free and smoothly. Looking for two cent advice...... It's nothing to remove it in favor of a better idea.

The fewer rollers indicate a cheaper bearing, and lower load capacity. I'd (of course) rather have a bearing with a full set of rollers but that one will probably last a good long time. If I could easily find a better bearing I might switch it. But if I had to do a lot of searching/chasing I'd let it go. Given how long most of these transmissions have held up with mostly water in them, they were probably overbuilt to begin with. The heaviest load will be on that bearing in first gear (smallest gear, closest to that end). The PTO load on that gear is very low.

The open end is not a problem.

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Re: Transmission (Updated)

Postby Bill Hudson » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:19 am

Harold R wrote:...( except the mysterious, hard to find Torrington NB-35). ...


I recently ordered two Torrington bearings (not the same one you are referring to) based upon the numbers clearly stamped on the side of the bearing. I had not removed the bearings at the time. When I received the bearings, I removed the ones in the gear case. The old ones had an oil hole, the new ones did not. When I returned the bearings, I was told that the new Torrington bearings, with an oil hole, have a different number than the old bearings. I guess that Torrington is just trying to keep us guessing. All four bearings were Torrington.

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Re: Transmission (Updated)

Postby Boss Hog » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:49 am

Bill Hudson wrote:
Harold R wrote:...( except the mysterious, hard to find Torrington NB-35). ...


I recently ordered two Torrington bearings (not the same one you are referring to) based upon the numbers clearly stamped on the side of the bearing. I had not removed the bearings at the time. When I received the bearings, I removed the ones in the gear case. The old ones had an oil hole, the new ones did not. When I returned the bearings, I was told that the new Torrington bearings, with an oil hole, have a different number than the old bearings. I guess that Torrington is just trying to keep us guessing. All four bearings were Torrington.

Bill


Well what are the new #s Bill?
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Re: Transmission (Updated)

Postby Bill Hudson » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:19 pm

Boss Hog wrote:
Bill Hudson wrote:
Harold R wrote:...( except the mysterious, hard to find Torrington NB-35). ...


... (not the same one you are referring to) ...
Bill


Well what are the new #s Bill?
Boss


Boss,

The number I was referring to was B-1210. This is for IH part number 387835R91. Application, you ask? Rotor drive for a QA-42 Snow Thrower.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Transmission (Updated)

Postby Rick Prentice » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:06 pm

Harold, don't forget to install a new pto pilot bushing. Yours looks kinda thin :shock:
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Re: Transmission (Updated)

Postby bob in CT » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:36 pm

The line that made that bearing in Torrington CT was dismantled when the plant was closed. The hole went away with the production equipment that made it. The no-hole bearing has been sold as a service replacement. Between the 2, I would be happy to get one with a nice big hole to drain plenty of oil into it. The one benefit to the larger rollers is that the oil hole can be a little larger too. That and a longer bearing I think will help offset the the change in roller size. More lube is a good thing, especially if it is 100% lube and not a milkshake.

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Re: Transmission (Updated)

Postby Harold R » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:27 am

Thanks for the input fellas. I'm gonna give it a go and see how it holds up. I do plan to replace the pilot bushing,(both) when I start going back together with it. It's going to be a couple of months, realistically, before this cub moves under power so I won't have an evaluation for a while. 8)

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Re: Transmission (Updated)

Postby Steve K. CALIF » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:40 pm

Just a couple of observations from an old bearing sales guy....When you order a needle bearing from the industrial supply houses such as Motion Ind, Applied Ind. Tech, Kaman Ind, etc. Be sure to tell them the part number and in most cases your part number should have an "OH" after the number. The B1210 bearing number is correct for the needle bearing WITHOUT OIL HOLE. If used the number B1210-OH, would receive the correct bearing With the OIL HOLE. These bearings are readily available. They do cost more than the ones without the hole.
F.Y.I., Koyo bearings uses the "B1210-OH" designation, too.
Jim is correct as to the reduced capacity of the caged bearing vs. the "full complement" version. I would think the capacity of either would be o.k. in a cub, but I would get the oil hole version to use as they are easy to get.

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Re: Transmission (Updated)

Postby RaymondDurban » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:44 pm

Steve K. CALIF wrote:Just a couple of observations from an old bearing sales guy.....

Thanks for the post, great info!!


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