Anti Freeze Check Reveals Surprise

Farmall Cub Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your Cub related issues.

Moderator: Team Cub

Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.

Re: Anti Freeze Check Reveals Surprise

Postby Landreo » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:01 am

ad356 wrote:i did the antifreeze in my cub today, i did not know how long it has been in there so i changed it. i like to spend $10 or less and change out old fluids it is cheap insurance i think. anyways antifreeze that came out looked good no nasty surprises no sludge or anything else that doesnt belong. i took 4 2 liter pop bottles out when i emptied. i refilled with 1 jug of full strength antifreeze and 1 gallon of water which gives me a 50% mix water to antifreeze. i didnt premix and i didnt realize that might be an issue i think the water and antifreeze should easily mix on its own. i did know it was thermoshipon but it still circulates; am i going to have an issue with my method or will everything mix on its own like i think it should. am i going to have an issue, i certainly don't want my tractor to freeze


The antifreeze will mix in a thermosiphon system "just fine". That is how I put antifreeze in my cubs. Did 2 this spring and one last weekend. There are some caveats: Need to run the engine so there is some flow, won't work well if the temp is below freezing, the water may freeze once it hits the cold radiator core.

The problem with the tester may be a change in the floats or it may just be contamination and sediment on the floats. Washing after use may be a good idea.
Landreo
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 956
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:10 am
Location: SC, Ridgeway
Zip Code: 29130
Tractors Owned: fcub
1 cyl fcub
154
Earthmaster
JD 40MT
JD 420 crawler-loader
D-2 Cat dozer
AC Model C
Cub Cadets
Red-E
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Anti Freeze Check Reveals Surprise

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:28 am

I'm going to repeat my comment from the last time premixing antifreeze was discussed. It is as appropriate now as it was a year ago.
If you want to see that entire discussion:
http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=66038

Jim Becker wrote:A little anecdotal evidence that not mixing works "just fine" isn't very convincing then it comes from somebody in a town where the average low in the coldest month of the year isn't below freezing.

As John pointed out, running the tractor hard enough and long enough will get it to mix. Unfortunately, hard enough and long enough are much easier to say than they are to quantify. Premixing is not difficult and eliminates any question as to whether it has mixed adequately. You don't have to even start the engine after adding the coolant. Premixing is simply a good practice that removes any question about whether the coolant is adequately mixed. Advising otherwise is about on par with:

"Don't bother checking you transmisson before starting the engine. If you put it in neutral last time you shut it off, it will still be in neutral."
or maybe:
"Don't waste your time with jack stands. I just put my bottle jack on top of a cinder block and it works just fine."

Sometimes "just fine" is the product of dumb luck.
User avatar
Jim Becker
Team Cub
Team Cub
 
Posts: 11985
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 3:14 pm
Location: MN
Zip Code: 55319
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Anti Freeze Check Reveals Surprise

Postby lazyuniondriver » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:45 am

:mrgreen: I don't remember how I did it the first time a zillion years ago but over the years I have accumulated a few extra anti freeze jugs so when tapping a new one, I have an empty to mix my formula.

Any bottle of 50/50 once mixed gets a cable tie around the handle to identify it as pre mix to prevent it from being diluted again. A jug with a cable tie on the handle is ready to use, already mixed 50% anti freeze and 50% water.
"HAVE ALL YOUR DELIVERIES MADE BY UNION DRIVERS"
Image
lazyuniondriver
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:37 am
Location: Southern Suburbs of Cleveland, Ohio
Zip Code: 44134
Tractors Owned: 1949 & 1951 Farmall Cubs

Several Snapper Garden Tractors
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Anti Freeze Check Reveals Surprise

Postby Landreo » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:06 am

Jim Becker wrote:I'm going to repeat my comment from the last time premixing antifreeze was discussed. It is as appropriate now as it was a year ago.
If you want to see that entire discussion:
http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=66038

Jim Becker wrote:A little anecdotal evidence that not mixing works "just fine" isn't very convincing then it comes from somebody in a town where the average low in the coldest month of the year isn't below freezing.

As John pointed out, running the tractor hard enough and long enough will get it to mix. Unfortunately, hard enough and long enough are much easier to say than they are to quantify. Premixing is not difficult and eliminates any question as to whether it has mixed adequately. You don't have to even start the engine after adding the coolant. Premixing is simply a good practice that removes any question about whether the coolant is adequately mixed. Advising otherwise is about on par with:

"Don't bother checking you transmisson before starting the engine. If you put it in neutral last time you shut it off, it will still be in neutral."
or maybe:
"Don't waste your time with jack stands. I just put my bottle jack on top of a cinder block and it works just fine."

Sometimes "just fine" is the product of dumb luck.



I do not trivialize other's data or results. I have no idea what the average winter temp is in SC nor do I know the average winter temp in PA where I spent half my life. I am not changing the antifreeze every day of every week of every month during the winter. I have done the same thing both north and south, different makes, models of tractors, different times of the year with the same results. Others have posted that they do the same thing.

Anectodal? I use that statement for evidence that resulted from not well controlled inputs and loosely defined outputs or results. In this case the inputs are air, water, antifreeze, a tractor. The output is the number of balls floating in the tester. It either works or not and 15 or so times the past few years it has worked. Prior to that in PA with a colder climate and slightly larger tractors than a cub. Still worked. That is alot of dumb luck!

I have have been very fortunate in my life but do not believe in luck or dumb luck. Other have posted they do the same thing and apparenty got the same results. More dumb luck?

Premix or not is up to the user. I keep a jug of premixed antifreeze in my truck just in case. For the cubs, I just poor in a gallon of antifreeze followed by water, run the engine. It mixes. I may try this winter during some cold weather, try to get as close to freezing as I can. Antifreeze is a good bit thicker at 35 degrees than at 80 degrees but it should still flow and mix.

Disagreement is appropriate, trivializing someone's statements or results is not.
Landreo
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 956
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:10 am
Location: SC, Ridgeway
Zip Code: 29130
Tractors Owned: fcub
1 cyl fcub
154
Earthmaster
JD 40MT
JD 420 crawler-loader
D-2 Cat dozer
AC Model C
Cub Cadets
Red-E
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Anti Freeze Check Reveals Surprise

Postby lazyuniondriver » Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:37 am

[quote="Landreo"Washing after use may be a good idea.[/quote]

Good suggestion. I can assure everyone I never rinsed either of my faulty testers which may have led to their demise.
"HAVE ALL YOUR DELIVERIES MADE BY UNION DRIVERS"
Image
lazyuniondriver
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:37 am
Location: Southern Suburbs of Cleveland, Ohio
Zip Code: 44134
Tractors Owned: 1949 & 1951 Farmall Cubs

Several Snapper Garden Tractors
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Anti Freeze Check Reveals Surprise

Postby JackF » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:48 am

I hope not to get anyone upset but to change the subject a little…

Water quality in a coolant system is critical. Antifreeze manufacturers recommend mixing de-ionized or distilled water with their antifreeze. Do not use tap water, which may contain minerals that will corrode your cooling system and/or cause scale buildup. Do not use water softened with salts -well water is alkaline and will corrode metals and leave deposits and starts electrolysis.

I like Rudy’s idea of recycled coolant. If recycled correctly all the minerals are out. If you can’t get distilled water or the recycled coolant the 50/50 premixed is your best bet.

The older cast-iron engines and big tube radiators are very forgiving with poor water quality but, the newer engines and cooling systems is a different story.

Here’s a photo I took one week after I rebuilt a Cub engine and refilled the coolant system with 50/50 mixture of well water and antifreeze. Notice the voltage reading of the electrolysis working only in one week.
Image
I’m really good at doing nothing…With that said…I’m really, really good at doing nothing
JackF
10+ Years
10+ Years
 
Posts: 905
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:20 am
Zip Code: 00000

Previous

Return to Farmall Cub

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests