Re: PULLING A HAYWAGON

Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:08 pm

Looks like 7 degrees would equate to about a 14 percent slope. Pretty steep in my book. Let's see how he measured.

http://www.co.cowlitz.wa.us/buildplan/f ... 0Slope.pdf
Last edited by Don McCombs on Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: PULLING A HAYWAGON

Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:21 pm

Don McCombs wrote:Looks like 7 degrees would equate to about a 14 percent slope. Pretty steep in my book. Let's see how he measured.

http://www.co.cowlitz.wa.us/buildplan/f ... 0Slope.pdf
I can't argue with that!

I can't argue with that!

Re: PULLING A HAYWAGON

Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:33 pm

7 degrees is about 1.2%. However, look at it this way(if I did the calculation right): 7 degrees for 1,000 feet up the road is an elevation change of 122 feet. A free roll (with no drag) for a 122 foot drop gets you 60 mph. Think about trying to stop 2 or 3 tons from 60 mph within 1,000 feet using Cub brakes.

edit:
Based on the posts while I was writing this, it appears I need to redo my arithmetic.

reedit: I got % off by 10x. 7 is evidently 12%. My other numbers look OK.

Re: PULLING A HAYWAGON

Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:44 pm

I'm about as chicken with my equipment as anyone. I've always been told "big tractor and smaller wagon, or smaller loader, or smaller whatever...". You don't want people to read about the accident in the local paper and say to themselves "what where they thinking...".

Having said that I have a light weight aluminum trailer (about 500 pounds with hay bales, close to 2,000 pounds with people) that I will give rides around the field. The field is bumpy so I'm always in 1st gear, and there are some areas with a grade to go up and down. I haven't measured the amount of grade, but the tractor does fine. In 1st gear it just pulls along either going up or down. I always carry several chocks just in case I'd ever have to block the tractor and trailer, and unhook the two. You can push the kill switch on the tractor while in gear if you are on a slope. Better than pushing in the clutch and free-wheel backwards and jack knife.

So, perhaps you can use a lighter trailer with fewer people at a time, and go slower, rather than get a bigger tractor. There may be the temptation to go faster on a level pavement.

Also make sure that you have a full tank of gas if you are going up a hill. I was low on gas and got caught going up a slope the other day. It sounds as if you have checked out all of the road laws in your area for slow moving vehicles.

Todd

Re: PULLING A HAYWAGON

Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:51 pm

Hi People...thanks for the input...now that I have changed my undershorts, I might be able to answer the question...I meant what I said in the pitch of the hills (7 degrees) They really look like knolls and not hills at all and the length is about 100 feet spread...so the guys that said it wasn't much hill at all are correct...and no, I am not 15 nor have the 'berries' of a 15 year old, however, I do practice safety and have a sensable head on my shoulders, which tells me all systems are go to a Cub-driven hayride...what I have learned is to do 2 trips of 10 people instead of a full house...Just for the record, I don't plan to engage in a run for my life flashing before my eyes....Don't worry guys, I WILL BE CAREFUL and THANK YOU for your support, stories and questions that arose..I will let you know how my hayride turns out...

Re: PULLING A HAYWAGON

Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:57 pm

Wow...lots of comments....all very valid points.

My dad used to do hayrides as a side business. Our cub used to be the overflow tractor when the hayride got bigger than the primary 20' trailer. We would pull a 12' or so trailer (steel deck, tandem axle) with 15-20 people on it. I drove it many times in my teens and early 20's. You have to be quite experienced and know your equipment well to do that in the dark over the hilly roads we have around here. I am sure I pulled hills that were at least 12-15% grades. '63 cub with front and rear weights and fluid in the rears. Never had any trouble stopping, but there were more than a few hills that we went down in 2nd gear.

From the numbers on the Nebraska tractor tests - they developed a maximum drawbar pull of 1063 lbs in second gear. That would be sufficient to pull a 6000 lb rig up a 15% grade but you might not get there until Christmas...

If you are insistent on moving forward with the idea - load the tractor and wagon up and drive the route 2-3 times to familiarize yourself with how the tractor handles with the weight behind it and what gears are needed to pull each of the grades. The cub can do it, but it can get dicey.

Re: PULLING A HAYWAGON

Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:48 pm

This isn't worth it. It's one thing to dump a load of wood or grain, it's another to dump people. All the theoreticals sound good, but why take a chance? I agree with ntenn, try it first with something you can afford to lose. That will satisfy your curiousity. Then either get a bigger tractor, a smaller trailer, or an F150.

Chris

Re: PULLING A HAYWAGON

Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:10 pm

My opinion is that if you rented a TRUE hay wagon, 4 wheels, 2 being in the back, two up front on the steering hitch then you would be ok with a few rules.

1. Only do this if your cub is in great mechanical shape and has the newer style brakes with no oil leaking on them.
2. The trailer will be holding all the weight and the cub just pulling it. With that being said, with 3 trips of 6 or 7 people and the weight of the trailer, that should equate to about the same weight of the cub. I wouldnt want to haul 10 and the trailer because the weight behind you will quickly exceed the weight of the cub.
3. Do as others stated and only run in a gear in which will let you pull all hills and avoid shifting or using the clutch.
4. Also I would also suggest getting the trailer any do a "dry run". Load the trailer down with dead weight and test the scenario.


Hayrides are fun and if you decide to do it be safe and slow. Enjoy it.

Re: PULLING A HAYWAGON

Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:27 am

Here are two pictures of the hayride wagon...I think it is smaller than most of you think or what I made you to believe ....plan B is to pull it with a Ford Ranger pick-up truck...what do you think people...can Moxie do it or not???
haywagon1.jpg
haywagon2.jpg
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Re: PULLING A HAYWAGON

Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:06 am

I know you mentioned your event will be alcohol free.

I'm certainly not trying to scare you into abandoning your plans to promote a family friendly event, however there was an accident in my neck of the woods just one year ago involving a hayride rollover.

Alcohol was determined to be involved however a multitude of mechanical or sober driver error reasons could cause a tractor/trailer to leave the roadway.

Years back my neighbor pulled a float in a parade. Due to the close proximity of people lining the streets, children dashing out to retrieve thrown items, and the remote possibility of someone on the float falling or stepping off before the ride completely stopped, deemed it necessary to hyper insure himself for the day.

He would call his agent and insure himself for millions for the day of the event with a blanket or umbrella policy. I don't know if agents still write these policies or not but would be well worth looking into.

You can do everything in your power to operate a safe ride but the one thing you cannot and I stress cannot prevent is stupidity.

Stupidity is no excuse but you don't need an excuse to sue someone.

Here is the link to the accident last fall.

http://www.farmanddairy.com/news/28-injured-in-erie-county-hayride-accident-driver-intoxicated/30931.html
Last edited by lazyuniondriver on Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: PULLING A HAYWAGON

Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:08 am

Tinkertoy wrote:...what do you think people...can Moxie do it or not???

At this point the only way to know is to load the wagon with weight...sand bags, blocks, etc...equal to the approximate weight of the people you will be hauling, and take it for a test ride. That way if there is an accident the only thing possibly damaged would be the Cub, the wagon, the test weight and possibly you. Of course, let's hope it doesn't come to that.

Without being able to see the layout of the route, most of us are pretty much at a loss for a good answer. None of us can say "Go for it" and be sure there will be no problems. If some thing should go drastically wrong, then others would look back and say "Well the guys on the forum said it would work". Some of us see 7 degrees as too steep and some see it as okay. We are basing a lot on how most Cubs handle a load, when in fact some may handle it better, or worse, than our own.

The route Rick took in the video I posted was just about, if not all, flat. He also took it slow and easy to keep the horse before the cart.

Re: PULLING A HAYWAGON

Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:37 am

lazyuniondriver wrote:deemed it necessary to hyper insure himself for the day. He would call his agent and insure himself for millions for the day of the event with a blanket or umbrella policy.
Excellent point. Much cheaper than being a self paying defendant in a law suit.

Re: PULLING A HAYWAGON

Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:52 am

An addition point of interest. In the event that someone did suffer an injury needing medical treatment, the first thing every health insurance provider asks when submitting a claim is "Was this an accident and if so where did it happen?"

You could be saddled with those medical bills even if the injured person is a relative and has no intention of bringing a lawsuit against you.

Protect yourself. Look into insuring the event.

Re: PULLING A HAYWAGON

Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:02 am

I failed to mention, I took out a milliom dollar policy for the 2 days liability ins. ($263)

Re: PULLING A HAYWAGON

Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:22 am

$263 well invested.