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Unwelcomed Carburetor Modification

Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:18 am

Howdy again folks. I was getting all excited about rebuilding my carburetor with a genuine rebuild kit when I discovered that someone has evidently broken the jet off and modified it with a home made plug. According to my instructions, the hex head brass jet is supposed to go into the space where the set screw is. And, there's a brass jet back in behind that screw with no way to remove it.

If you folks would be so kind, could you tell me if that is indeed what has happened here?


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Re: Unwelcomed Carburetor Modification

Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:52 am

Appears that the jet's threaded portion is broken off, inside the carb body. It can be drilled out, and helicoiled, if needed. Cecil has done it on several carbs. Ed

Re: Unwelcomed Carburetor Modification

Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:34 am

Before chucking up a drill bit, procure a thread extractor, sometimes referred to as an EZ out.

The high dollar type may be too short so the cheaper, longer version may work better.

The tool is cut so when turned counter clockwise, the edges bite the brass and turn it out. The tool is 4 sided so a wrench will grip it, the expensive one has a hex head. I apologize for the crappy picture.

There just happened to be the remnants of a brass fitting left on one I grabbed to shoot, a perfect demo picture.

If you can coax it out with a screw extractor, no drilling or thread replacement is necessary. Plus you'll have the extractor on hand for future use.

I hope the outside edge of the carburator body isn't screwed up from the set screw and still seals.
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Re: Unwelcomed Carburetor Modification

Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:46 am

If you do drill, use a left handed drill bit. It might just grab and back it out for you! A good dose of penetrating solvent and time might help too. Some times easy outs don't make the job easier.

Re: Unwelcomed Carburetor Modification

Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:11 am

I have drilled out several of those with the same issue, the jet is brass and soft so its eazy to drill, retap with 1/4 x 28 thread and you are good to go
Tim

Re: Unwelcomed Carburetor Modification

Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:48 pm

Thank you everyone for the help. I was thinking I might could extract it, but I wanted to see if anyone else had ever encountered something like this. Now I see why my first attempt to rebuild this carburetor didn't work so well. This part was not in the first kit I got.

I have an ez out that should work. I will let the thing soak in penetrating oil for a while before I attempt to extract it. I'll let you all know how it goes. Let's hope it "turns out" like it should!

Re: Unwelcomed Carburetor Modification

Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:26 pm

Ben:

The very last tool I would use is an EZ-Out :!: Dislike them with a passion because they tend to break/snap/shatter at the most inopportune times. While this is pot metal and brass I would prefer a better tool choice such as:

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Mastercraft Maximum Grab-IT 4-piece Set

or a similar set sourced south of the 49th such as the [url]Alden 8430P Pro Grabit Broken Bolt and Damaged Screw Extractor 3 Piece Kit[/url].

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Fastenal has a couple different sets as well.

Left hand drill bits are rather useful as well. Would still recommend soaking it the broken jet with a good penetrating oil and then attempt to remove the jet. Determine what carb you have by the part # on the top half of the carb above the bowl and order the correct replacement jet.

Oh yeah, I chucked my EZ-Outs in the back field a couple years ago -- after a couple of bad experiences with them. Some day I expect to see them again after plowing and discing some ... :lol: Either way, it is a good place for them :!:

Re: Unwelcomed Carburetor Modification

Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:57 pm

Rudi wrote:
I chucked my EZ-Outs in the back field

Not sure what you pitched but what you pictured are still screw or thread extractors.

I don't know if "EZ Out" or "Easy Out" was patented, a registered trademark, a brand name, or specific design, but generally was a generic shop term we used for any type or brand of screw extractor, like Xerox was generic for copy. Maybe someone can add an additional citation to this.

I have two types, the expensive ones off the Snap-On truck which are best for broken bolts or studs and work extremely well. They are hex headed and require the hole to be drilled the precise size which is marked on each separate extractor.

The fits all set which is tapered and driven or tapped in with a hammer work well for brass and iron pipe fittings. I refer to those as plumbers extractors.

You must be aware screw extractors have their limits and will seldom turn out portions of thread that broke off from terminal corrosion. (Cub head bolt)

They are also very ineffective if the hole is not or cannot be drilled perfectly straight and of sufficient depth in the exact center and size specified.

The rule of thumb which I follow is if a pair of Vise Grips clamped on tightly would have turned it without slipping before it broke and, I can drill a clean hole, an extractor will take it out the rest of the way.

The thread extractor is not the answer every time, but I assure you, I have extracted just as many broken fasteners or fittings than I have had to drill out, and later rethread the hole. I have also broken them by asking too much from them, something you must avoid at all cost.

If the broken fastener is within extraction parameters, the thread extractor is a time saving device which every mechanic I know goes to first before drilling big and having to tap new threads. If it works, it works, you save time which is money if you work on a flat rate scale of pay.

I have had greater success removing broken brass fittings with the cheaper tapered long nose extractors because for every quarter turn of the tap handle, another hammer tap ensures the cutting edge remains well purchased into the brass material. This type of extractor is not made to remove material but cut and hold similar to a lock washer.

As previously mentioned, plenty of penetrating oil should be used. When you have enough torque on it, it hasn't budged, and you feel it may snap, it probably will. Retreat and drill it out with a LH bit if you have a set.

When you use these little time savers often enough, you get a feel of what they'll take and what they'll break so you can choose your method of removal correctly.
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Re: Unwelcomed Carburetor Modification

Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:09 am

I thank you gentlemen for the advice. I guess I fall into that category of someone who calls all my extractors "EZ outs". They are not that particular brand.

I do like the idea of the left hand drill bits. I've never seen them, but I ain't exactly been looking for them either. I'll hunt for some.

Re: Unwelcomed Carburetor Modification

Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:30 am

http://www.ebay.com/itm/15pc-Left-Hand- ... 58995878f9
http://www.ebay.com/itm/15pc-Left-Hande ... 2320df2253
http://www.ebay.com/itm/13pc-Titanium-L ... 255fb1276e

One of these will work

Re: Unwelcomed Carburetor Modification

Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:40 am

I picked up a set of left-handed bits at Harbor Freight. Looks like your nearest HF stores are in Johnson City, NC and Roanoke, VA. Might be more economical for you to get them thru eb*y (as Boss linked above) or online and shipped to your door. Wish you success!

Re: Unwelcomed Carburetor Modification

Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:02 am

Jeff:

The ones you have - which are very very expensive (I googled extractors and found the snap on variety) and most of us simply cannot afford them.

These are the ones I meant that need to be tossed:

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Screw Extractor Set - 5 Piece

A good description of the undesirable styles can be found here - Screw Extractor - the flute types are really tossable.

You can see the different ez-outs/extractors available at Sears - EZ Out Extractor Set

The type you have are in the same or next class as the ones I recommended. Far superior product.

Oh yeah, and Ben I would recommend that left handed drill bit set that Boss linked to -- these look like a real good buy :idea: :!:

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Re: Unwelcomed Carburetor Modification

Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:24 am

Rudi wrote:These are the ones I meant that need to be tossed:

Gotcha. Understand the reason for pitching them.

I had a few left but have passed them to my son, had to look for them in his box. They work, just not as well or with greater limitations than other styles.

The extractors purchased from Snap-On were during my career as a professional mechanic before I started driving. Yes they were expensive.

The ones in the picture are Sears Craftsman brand which probably 50% of my tool collection consists of.
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Re: Unwelcomed Carburetor Modification

Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:29 am

Make sure you take your time, don't rush. Also make sure you stop soon as you drill through the brass because the other side of the carb body is right there just waiting for a nice hole :lol: Sometimes it's good to slide something(washers or sockets) over the bit to act as a stop in case the bit grabs and lunges forward into the soft carb body.

For all to read) Patience is the biggest key to using extractors. If you're the kinda guy that likes to apply 75 foot pounds of torque on a 1/4" bolt, then extractors and taps will probably give you headaches with your repair adventures. If you take your time and work slow, you can actually drill out the brass until just the threads are left, then use a pick to remove the remaining threads. The jet already has a center hole to keep you "on-center". The left-handed bits might just work for you if you have all the correct sizes to use. Drill the first one, if the brass doesn't spin out, increase to the next size and try again. Repeat this process and hopefully the brass will spin out before you reach the threads. I happen to like extractors and they've served me well over the years. Have I broke any extractors or taps, sure, but usually it happened when I was rushing or not paying attention.

Rick

Re: Unwelcomed Carburetor Modification

Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:06 am

Rick Prentice wrote: Have I broke any extractors or taps, sure, but usually it happened when I was rushing or not paying attention.

Rick


Rick... this must have been a LOOONGGG time ago. As one who has observed your work, I can say for certain that you are about the most patient and methodical worker EVER.

My fuel line on Merlin is one testament to your work!!

Mike
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