Penetrating Oils Revisted

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Re: Penetrating Oils Revisted

Postby Rudi » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:23 pm

WD-40 is not a penetrating oil - it is a water displacement fluid - which is what it was designed for.

About Us wrote:It took them 40 attempts to get the water displacing formula worked out. But they must have been really good, because the original secret formula for WD-40®—which stands for Water Displacement perfected on the 40th try—is still in use today.


WD-40 Company does market other products - WD-40 Specialist that have other properties/uses, but the original forumla is definitely not. It displaces water and can prevent rusting. How many coats ???? have no idea. It doesn't really act as a penetrant - although it can produced some desirous effects for very short periods of time.

WD-40 is in my barn and I have more than one can cause I am always misplacing it. It is great to spray in dist caps, on spark plug wires etc., where wicking water is a problem. Why? .... cause it Displaces Water :D

When I have obstinant bolts - I get a can of Nut Buster, Solvo-Rust or Kroil if it really is stuck. Kroil is hard to come by up here so I have to get it when I is stateside. Course then we can run into the Crown Royal issue :lol:
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Re: Penetrating Oils Revisted

Postby SONNY » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:18 am

Used motor oil mixed with diesel fuel then follow right up with HEAT!---lots of it!---works quickly for us "aint got time to mess around guys"! ----When I have to get something loose it has to be right now!---people cant be waiting for some wont work soaker to hopefully loosen rusted stuff!-----currently working on mm-u motor for a customer who wants it now, not 5 years from now! lol!! thanks; sonny
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Re: Penetrating Oils Revisted

Postby lazyuniondriver » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:50 am

Buzzard Wing wrote:I find the church key...

Haven't heard that term in years... Perhaps lastly from my late father!
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Re: Penetrating Oils Revisted

Postby Scrivet » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:27 am

Rudi wrote:WD-40 is not a penetrating oil .......

Rudi, I'm surprised you didn't see this while you were on the WD-40 website;

THE FIVE BASIC FUNCTIONS:

LUBRICATES: WD-40's lubricating ingredients are widely dispersed and hold firmly to all moving parts.

REMOVES: WD-40 gets under grease, grime, and gunk. WD-40 non-aerosol formulas also dissolve adhesives, allowing easy removal of labels, tape, stickers, and excess bonding material.

PROTECTS: WD-40 protects metal surfaces with corrosion-resistant ingredients to shield against moisture and other corrosive elements.

PENETRATES: WD-40 loosens rust-to-metal bonds and frees stuck, frozen or rusted metal parts.

DISPLACES MOISTURE: Because WD-40 displaces moisture, it quickly dries out electrical systems to eliminate moisture-induced short circuits.

http://www.wd40.com/products/

Yes it was developed as a Water Displacement product but it does other things also. Kind of like Duct Tape, it was developed for one thing but has many uses. You don't just use Duct Tape on your heating ducts do you?
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Re: Penetrating Oils Revisted

Postby Super A » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:38 am

Matt Kirsch wrote:We used to use a product called "Panther" from Massey Ferguson. Smelled like the Southbound end of a Northbound skunk, so we called it skunk oil or panther p(you fill in the rest). Swore the stuff was magic, but mostly the bolts weren't stuck in the first place.


I use Panther Pee at home. It has an Agco label now. Have had pretty good luck with it, I like it because it sort of foams up and seems to cling to the stuck whatever better. It could be the placebo effect, I dunno. Liquid Wrench is good stuff too. Never tried Kroil, but I have always sort of figured it was more hype than anything else.

I kinda like the smell of the Panther Pee!! :wink:

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Re: Penetrating Oils Revisted

Postby Jim Becker » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:56 am

Scrivet wrote:Rudi, I'm surprised you didn't see this while you were on the WD-40 website;

THE FIVE BASIC FUNCTIONS:
. . .

In general, my experience has been that anything that claims to be great at multiple things isn't very good at any of them.

WD-40 has done nothing for me to alter that observation.
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Re: Penetrating Oils Revisted

Postby Rudi » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:12 am

I will echo Jim's comment but modify it to : WD-40 has done nothing for me to alter my experiences and observations over the last 45 years of using the product :!:

Product claims mean absolutely nothing to me, results do.
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Re: Penetrating Oils Revisted

Postby Landreo » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:58 pm

If you made a list of what you may need to make a penetrating oil and then looked at WD-40 you would find a similar list. If you look at what is in WD-40 and other penetrating oils, similar.

WD-40 does meet the US GSA definition for a penetrating oil as well as the British Army definition.

WD-40 does not appear to work any better or any worse than other penetrating oils I have used. I may not be near as observant as others but I found no difference between the oils I have tried.

This isn't heart surgery, no one is going to die if they use WD-40 as a penetrating oil, no one is going to die if they refuse to use WD-40. It is just oil.

However, the original point of my response earlier was to point out that the purported email about the different types of penetrating oils is bogus. I have the original article and it is nothing like what was in this "email". People can do what they want, this isn't heart surgery, but at least accurate information should be presented.

If you are an inquiring type of person, send a request to the makers of WD-40, Kroil, PB Blaster, Liquid Wrench, others and ask for a citation list of real peer reviewed articles that support their claims of greatness. I did not test WD-40 so did not ask for a citation list but did from Kroil, PB Blaster, Liquid Wrench. Got no response from Kroil or liquid Wrench. Did recieve a response from PB Blaster but no list of studies. I expect there are none.

The study of thin films such as what you would find in penetrating oils is called tribology and there are many journals related to tribology. Anyone can search and pay for reprints but I do not remember finding any peer reviewed articles that compared the different brands of penetrating oils.


Years ago I listened to several folks fighting over Mac vs Microsoft operating systems. I had both at the time and thought the discussion was funny but not in a good way. Lots of passions on both sides. I finally spoke after a while and said.... "You know, computers are like your children, you continue to defend them no matter how bad they are". Both sides thought I was talking about the other but in reality I was talking about both. Oil, penetrating oils, paints, tractors, welders etc are like your children.......


Remember it is just penetrating oil, or in the case of WD-40, may be not!
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Re: Penetrating Oils Revisted

Postby Denny Clayton » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:08 pm

I was introduced to WD-40 while at Marine Corps boot camp in San Diego. It was issued to us for cleaning and rust prevention for our rifles. I loved it! It was the best smelling thing there. :wink: :lol:
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Re: Penetrating Oils Revisted

Postby Gerry Powell » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:38 pm

My opinion, penetrating oil used by itself is marginal at meeting the claims the manufacturers make. But if you take any one on the list and use it in combination with heat, you probably couldn't tell the difference because you'll have similar results.
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Re: Penetrating Oils Revisted

Postby Buzzard Wing » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:35 pm

Yep Driver, they are getting harder to find these days. And you are making me feel old, cause I even know what it is. :lol:
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Re: Penetrating Oils Revisted

Postby lazyuniondriver » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:54 pm

Buzzard Wing wrote:And you are making me feel old...

Sorry 'bout that! Go over to "Off Topic"... They've been around before both of us were born.
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Re: Penetrating Oils Revisted

Postby Rudi » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:11 pm

Scrivet wrote:You don't just use Duct Tape on your heating ducts do you?


I know Steve Smith made a career out of Duct Tape on Red Green - but Duct Tape would be the very last thing I would use in HVAC. All of my ducts are sealed with aluminum tape. Again, experience over hype. Duct Tape is literally useless on sealing duct work.

This has been an interesting thread again. Every now and then this topic pops up and it is good to have these discussions as any knowledge gained is valuable knowledge and when folks discuss stuff there is nothing but winners. I think my sig line kind of embodies this which I really believe.
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Re: Penetrating Oils Revisted

Postby mrdibs » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:23 pm

I'm too quick to torch I guess. Will need to try Laquer thinner mix. It penetrates for sure but I never thought of adding a lubricant to it. Maybe Mix with wd40 instead of ATF. Thin-ness would seem to be key. Of course, I've become quite good at the break-drill-extract method due to 'too lazy to get torch gas' syndrome.
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Re: Penetrating Oils Revisted

Postby gusbratz » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:25 pm

It is hard to believe anything you read on an internet forum. But for what its worth I had this highly recommended to me by a friend I used to work maintenance with at a steel mill. He gave me a can and it is by far the best thing out there its called loctite freeze and release. It has something in it that when you spray it it cools the bolt down to -45*F. This makes it contract and allows the penetrant to get in. I don't use it all the time. Most bolts I don't really care if they twist off, I will just drill and re-tap or if they are pass bolts I will replace them. I use a pump can with a little atf for normal jobs. And some WD 40 for cabinet hinges in the house and what not but that freeze and release succeeds where ALL others fail. On seriously frozen stuff that I really don't want to twist off it loosens them up. It is expensive but it's worth every penny. Here are the brake bands off my td6 dozer that I didn't want to ruin and they were super frozen. It was the final step to getting those little locking bolts out.
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