history of the international C60 engine

Farmall Cub Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your Cub related issues.

Moderator: Team Cub

Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.

history of the international C60 engine

Postby ad356 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:35 pm

i have a friend of mine who is also an international tractor fan who has a 766. we had a discussion about the farmall and international cub today and he tried telling me that the C60 out of a last model year 1979 international cub is not the same engine as found in a 1947 farmall cub. i told him that the blocks are identical with the differences being only carburation, pistons, and perhaps governor. i told him that i could install a 1979 international cub engine in my 1948 farmall cub tractor making no modifications to the tractor itself. he thinks it would never bolt up and the bolt holes arent even the same. i think he is wrong and my friend is a "know it all" type, i want to prove him wrong. who is right?? how can i prove him wrong?

thoughts?
ad356
Cub Star
Cub Star
 
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:14 pm
Zip Code: 14113

Re: history of the international C60 engine

Postby Barnyard » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:46 pm

ad356 wrote:who is right??

You are right.

ad356 wrote:how can i prove him wrong?

If just telling him doesn't seem to convince him, then the only other way to prove it is to bolt one to your Cub.
It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something.
- Franklin D. Roosevelt -

Barnyard Bash CubFest May 30th - May 31st, 2014
Click here for info http://www.barnyardbash.com
http://www.Savethecub.com
User avatar
Barnyard
Team Cub
Team Cub
 
Posts: 17872
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:39 pm
Location: OH, New Haven (Hamilton County)
Zip Code: 45030
Tractors Owned: At This Time
40 Farmall Cubs (Round Hood)
2 Farmall Cub (Square Hood)
2 IH Cubs (Square Hood)
5 Lo-Boys (Round Hood)
2 Lo-Boys (Square Hood)
2 Farmall 404's
1 Farmall H
1 Ferguson 20
1 Cub Cadet 125
1 Kubota B-7100
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: history of the international C60 engine

Postby 64/67lo-boy » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:35 pm

I like your dillema. Heres what i figure. The c60 bolts up to the torque tube and the bolster so the torque tube part number was back in 1949 351 686 R1 and in 1979 it was 351 686 R3. So there were two changes made. Figure out what those two changes were and if it was not the bolt patern were the c60 bolts up, then the C60 will fit all years. I have not checked the bolster party number to determin how many changes it has had.
Pete from Virginia Beach


man comes into the world cold naked wet and starving, and after that things get worse. "Gun Smoke"
User avatar
64/67lo-boy
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:46 pm
Location: Virginia Beach
Zip Code: 23453
Tractors Owned: 48 cub
67 loboy
52 super c
74 loboy 154
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: history of the international C60 engine

Postby Bob McCarty » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:37 pm

I don't think IH used the same part number on a "revised part" if it was not backward compatible.

Bob
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein
Bob McCarty
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 5634
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: CO, Longmont
Zip Code: 80501
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: history of the international C60 engine

Postby 64/67lo-boy » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:42 pm

Good point Bob. How do we figure out what the up gradesd were?
Pete from Virginia Beach


man comes into the world cold naked wet and starving, and after that things get worse. "Gun Smoke"
User avatar
64/67lo-boy
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:46 pm
Location: Virginia Beach
Zip Code: 23453
Tractors Owned: 48 cub
67 loboy
52 super c
74 loboy 154
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: history of the international C60 engine

Postby Bob McCarty » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:50 pm

We ask Jim Becker, of course. :D

Bob
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein
Bob McCarty
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 5634
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: CO, Longmont
Zip Code: 80501
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: history of the international C60 engine

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:28 pm

The engines will directly bolt up, but there were changes made, block strengthened, manifold modified, etc.
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government
to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the
government lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." Patrick Henry
User avatar
John *.?-!.* cub owner
Team Cub Guide
Team Cub Guide
 
Posts: 19473
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:09 pm
Location: Mo, Potosi
Zip Code: 63664
Tractors Owned: 47, 48, 49 cub plus Wagner loader & other attachments. 41 Farmall H.

Re: history of the international C60 engine

Postby 64/67lo-boy » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:04 pm

How do those changes afect the bolt up to the torque tube and the bolster. That will detemin if the C60 will be interchangeble between all years of the cub.
Pete from Virginia Beach


man comes into the world cold naked wet and starving, and after that things get worse. "Gun Smoke"
User avatar
64/67lo-boy
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:46 pm
Location: Virginia Beach
Zip Code: 23453
Tractors Owned: 48 cub
67 loboy
52 super c
74 loboy 154
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: history of the international C60 engine

Postby Bob McCarty » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:14 pm

Those changes don't affect bolt alignment at either end. IE., I've put a 154 engine in a '49 cub without any problems. I think you would have to look real close and be real knowledgeable to notice any differences.

Bob
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein
Bob McCarty
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 5634
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: CO, Longmont
Zip Code: 80501
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: history of the international C60 engine

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:24 pm

Of course the engines interchange between all years of Cubs. I can't believe that anyone that has been on this site for an extended time would even question it. The last Cub built had an engine block with the same base part number as the first Cub. When the digit after the "R" was increased, the new part was backwards compatible to the lower number. A lower number is not necessarily forward compatible to the higher number. If a new part wasn't backward compatible, the whole number changed.

The specifics of what changed with a given revision was occasionally documented in a service bulletin. Identifying most changes would probably require a look at both part drawings. We don't have access to most drawings.
User avatar
Jim Becker
Team Cub
Team Cub
 
Posts: 11925
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 3:14 pm
Location: MN
Zip Code: 55319
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: history of the international C60 engine

Postby bob in CT » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:26 pm

I think the switch to 12 volt starters made the major change to the block.
User avatar
bob in CT
Cub Pro
Cub Pro
 
Posts: 5239
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:34 am
Location: CT, Manchester
Zip Code: 06040
Tractors Owned: 77 Cub (red); 74 Cub; 52 Cub; 50 Cub ( post-demo)
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: history of the international C60 engine

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:30 pm

bob in CT wrote:I think the switch to 12 volt starters made the major change to the block.

Yes, that was the reason for the change from R7 to R8. The oil filter bolt changed because of it. That was documented in a service bulletin.
User avatar
Jim Becker
Team Cub
Team Cub
 
Posts: 11925
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 3:14 pm
Location: MN
Zip Code: 55319
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: history of the international C60 engine

Postby Rudi » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:58 pm

I like Jim's answer. :big smile:

I would imagine if you took a copy of the original TC-37 and a copy of the last TC-37 Revision and compared part numbers, that should about do it. If he doesn't buy that, don't bother wasting your energy. Some folks' opinion cannot be changed no matter what. It is like those Cubs on TractorHouse.com - one is described as 1941 and another as a 1946. Hello..... :shock: 501 was a '47 .... :big give up:
Confusion breeds Discussion which breeds Knowledge which breeds Confidence which breeds Friendship

User avatar
Rudi
Team Cub
Team Cub
 
Posts: 28471
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 8:37 pm
Location: NB Dieppe, Canada
Zip Code: E1A7J3
eBay ID: ve9rhs
Skype Name: R.H. "Rudi" Saueracker, SSM
Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub "Granny"
1948 Cub "Ellie-Mae"
1951 Cub "Jethro"
Dad's Putt-Putt
IH 129 CC
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y
Twitter ID: Rudi Saueracker, SSM

Re: history of the international C60 engine

Postby Lurker Carl » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:32 am

Instead of you proving the engines will interchange, have your "friend" prove they will not.
"Chance favors the prepared mind."
- Louis Pasteur

"In character, in manners, in style, in all things, the supreme excellence is simplicity."
- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
User avatar
Lurker Carl
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 3939
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 9:54 am
Location: PA, Todd
Zip Code: 16685
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: history of the international C60 engine

Postby Winfield Dave » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:40 am

Lurker Carl wrote:Instead of you proving the engines will interchange, have your "friend" prove they will not.

:thumbsup:
Dave
"More gold has been mined from the thoughts of men than has been taken from the earth." -- Napoleon Hill
User avatar
Winfield Dave
501 Club
501 Club
 
Posts: 2637
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:31 pm
Location: PA, Middleport (Schuylkill County)
Zip Code: 17953
Tractors Owned: ......Almost enough
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Next

Return to Farmall Cub

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Eoghan and 7 guests