Re: Sand Blasting vs. Wire Brush Grinder

Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:21 am

We are wire wheeling our school tractor now. My local JD dealer gave us a few cans of ZEP. It is a spray can of paint remover. It works pretty fast at breaking paint loose and then we are wire wheeling it off. Is working pretty good so far. My body shop guy told me to get it all done and then steam wash it to get all the grease and oil off and then blow dry it with a leaf blower and prime it with in 6 to 8 hrs of being washed. I am kinda against his idea but he is painting it for us.

The only problem is either way you go it still really messy and dangerous. I have been stuck by several wires flying the wire wheels and with 3 wheels going at one time, wires are going everywhere.

Good luck with what your doing.

Re: Sand Blasting vs. Wire Brush Grinder

Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:34 am

DAP TSP is the best and if you can get it at Lowe's then that is the one I would recommend. However, as with all things, not every rule applies. In 2006 when Em and I went to Cecil's for the first time Cecil and I built along with a couple volunteers another of my Electrolysis tanks which we raffled off. Larry aka Buzzardwing was the lucky winner :lol: When we got it finished be needed a test article, so we used if I remember correctly a rear rim centre. Cecil had tried to find TSP but couldn't because the state had outlawed it or something. So he got the DAP TSP Free. Just like the box you got. I wasn't sure it would work.

It did though. It did everything that the TSP does or Washing Soda, but the TSP Free also prevented flash rust unlike the Washing Soda. Why, I haven't a clue. But it did. If I remember correctly it was Peter's rim we did and he didn't get to prime it for a few days and there was no flash rust. There was no flash rust on Sunday either before everyone left ... sooooo. I can only conclude that one of the indgredients that are common to both the TSP and TSP-Free but NOT in the Washing Soda is what prevents the flash rust.

IF you can return the TSP-Free to Lowe's and exchange it for straight TSP then that would be my preferred option. Whenever I am up at Kent, I always buy an extra box. It always comes in handy.

One of the reasons I try to stay away from wire wheeling is because of the potential harm to one's respiratory system. I try to reduce those exposures as much as I can. Even when I clean up the residue from the tank, I always use a mask. Oh and to clarify a comment - I usually only wire wheel the electrodes. Very seldom do I have to do anything with the parts aside from wipe them down prior to priming.

Re: Sand Blasting vs. Wire Brush Grinder

Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:07 am

Maybe I need to type louder.
http://www.cleanersolutions.org/downloads/msds/754/Washing%20Soda%20MSDS.pdf
http://www.dap.com/docs/msds/00079401001_english.pdf

Re: Sand Blasting vs. Wire Brush Grinder

Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:52 am

TSP is a known corrosion inhibitor. I just skimmed this paper and most will not want to read it but it is an example of a real experiment that produces meaningful results. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CFIQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnopr.niscair.res.in%2Fbitstream%2F123456789%2F6164%2F1%2FIJCT%252016(5)%2520401-410.pdf&ei=0TdoUdviFc7h4AOEn4D4Aw&usg=AFQjCNFWJMXGhtQN-28_urndiT_ASOa0Gw&sig2=3UhvybWudSjlVvRhDF1WRw&bvm=bv.45175338,d.dmg&cad=rja

I have both sodium carbonate and TSP in my tank. The parts I take out ALWAYS need to be cleaned before painting. Most paint comes off easily, but some areas can still be tenacious. The black crud needs to come off- anything loose needs to go. After mechanical removal, wiping down with a solvent and white shop towel will tell you when you are done. I usually go over it a couple of times. After this effort I would not count on much help from corrosion inhibiting properties of TSP. Prime right away. I usually wire brush right out of the tank. Sloppy with spatters, but I prefer that to dust.

Re: Sand Blasting vs. Wire Brush Grinder

Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:12 pm

From Savogran website MSDS for each of their products;
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Re: Sand Blasting vs. Wire Brush Grinder

Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:49 pm

If you really want to get fancy with the electrolysis, use CARBON anodes instead of chunks of re-bar.

Really, it's all good. IIRC, even plain old baking soda will work.

Re: Sand Blasting vs. Wire Brush Grinder

Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:13 pm

That Arm and Hammer stuff is also a good 'natural' cleaner.... no suds to rinse and very cheap. Works great on greasy laundry too.

Several states have a 'ban' on anything with phosphate in it, I think NY and Mass do. TSP is many times more expensive than washing soda, but once you have it in your tank all you really need to replace is the evaporated water.

I wipe down every part with denatured alcohol before priming. Probably the cheapest option too.

Rust is huge problem for me, some of it from the winter travel I do and some is because I live close to the ocean. I cut the bolts that hold the bed on my truck and the next morning they had rust on them. I was up till 2 am once priming stuff that I just got back from the sandblaster.....

Rust never sleeps!

Re: Sand Blasting vs. Wire Brush Grinder

Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:57 pm

Here is the result of wire brushing a tractor, for me. Make sure you think about those pesky wire fragments. This one worked down into my shoe and deep in my toe.

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Re: Sand Blasting vs. Wire Brush Grinder

Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:53 pm

As Bob pointed out, wire brushing can be quite hazardous. Whether it be wire embedded in your hands or other parts of your body or your eyes, it can have lasting effects on you. And when you only have one eyeball left, you tend to minimize exposure from flying dust/dirt/pieces of wire. For me and this is only as it pertains to me and my own personal preferences, I like to take as few risks as possible especially now. Safety first.

Electrolysis is far safer than any other form for cleaning iron and steel that we come across in playing with old iron. Dust is harmful to the respiratory system - I know .. believe me I know. When doing this kind of work, eye protection and respirators are really kinda mandatory. One could say walking in the house with a snoot full of dust/dirt is macho, but really it is just dumb because it is COPD or worse waiting to happen. Use good safety practices. With electrolysis, the risks from dirt/dust/gunk or other particulates getting into your eyes or lungs are greatly reduced if proper safety precautions are taken. Plus it leaves the shop cleaner.

So, I am no chemist, barely understand simple chemical interactions, but what I don't know from books is made up for by experience. I happen to know that TSP works very well, 12 volts DC, 2.2 lbs of TSP in 45 US Gallons or so, a couple pieces of sacrificial rebar or rebar weded to an old mower blade connected to the positive side of the charger and the part connected to the negative side and presto poof a few hours later, clean parts. You can clean the residue off the parts while still in the tank or you can clean them out of the tank. Dip them back in the tank after cleaning, dunk a couple times and then let dry. Granted, some parts will require a bit more strenuous cleaning, but that is part of the learning curve I guess. Bob also makes some good points there.

I was not convinced that Washing Soda or TSP-Free would do the same job. When I went to Cecil's in 2006 we built a tank similar to mine and then we put a rim or a center in the tank. I was pleasantly surprised to find that TSP-Free accomplished almost the same as regular TSP and resulted in next to no flash rust. I think this thread shows some pics Re: Electrolysis Before and After? I was pleased also to see the sheet of paint slip off as well... :D

Again, this is from my experience. Lord knows I am no expert on anything nor claim to be, I just like to play with stuff. And when I am playing I is learning and that is part of th enjoyment :D Your experiences may vary :wink: :D

Re: Sand Blasting vs. Wire Brush Grinder

Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:03 am

No easy way to do it right.....

Cleaning the electrodes from the tank is eventually required, I generally run a wire brush on them once a day or so. But to get them really 'clean' I pretty much use a bench grinder with a wire wheel. The wire wheels for those are the worst for throwing wires! For the angle grinder, twisted wire ones will rarely spew wires and last longer. I think if they carry a brand name (DeWalt) they are better quality.

The most difficult ones I have done in the tank are the front wheels (lots of angles). Long time to get em done. Cleaned up nice and sprayed with Case IH IronGard.

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Re: Sand Blasting vs. Wire Brush Grinder

Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:55 am

The results are amazing.

Re: Sand Blasting vs. Wire Brush Grinder

Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:44 pm

Paint stripper,3500psi pressure washer,wire wheel cup brush if needed & e-tank on items I can get in there,NO SANDBLASTING!!!! Done one,Will not do another.....What a mess.

Re: Sand Blasting vs. Wire Brush Grinder

Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:36 pm

I hear you about wires from cup brushes. I can personally vouch that the cheapy brushes shed wire like it's a contest! I'll look for the dewalt ones, as I'm about to tackle the '48 (again)- hopefully come next spring it'll be done!