Potential runner fast becoming parts tractor**updated**

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Potential runner fast becoming parts tractor**updated**

Postby dbboss » Sun May 05, 2013 1:19 pm

I laid my hands on Cub #2 several weeks ago. She had a seized up engine, but it freed up on the second day. Thought I was home free, but I keep getting surprised. In a bad way, that is. First I saw oil coming from the right final drive and discovered that the drive had been repaired previously. Well it's cracked all of the way around this time. Ok. I can get another housing. Had several valves sticking badly so I decided to go ahead and pull the head to polish the valve stems and check the rings, seats, etc. That's when I found the repair on the head. Hmmm. Not good, but ok. Might still be worth getting going. Got it at a steal. Pull the hose to the radiator and look into the head...oil on top of the coolant. REALLY not good. Snapped off the head bolt closest to the repair. It galled on the braze and snapped even with top of the head. The head is loose finally an will twist side to side a little, but won't come off. The bolt moves with the head. Threads are loose, si I have to drill the bolt out to free the head. That's when I'm thinking I'll see a crack in the block causing the oil in the coolant. If that's the case it just turned from a potential runner into a parts tractor. :( Really want it running. I'll have the head off in a day or 2. Any other ideas until then? Opinions on what else to do or check until I get the head off?
Attachments
2013-04-28_18-51-35_626-1.jpg
Cracked right final. Goes all the way around.
2013-04-28_18-51-35_626-1.jpg (26.38 KiB) Viewed 701 times
2013-05-04_21-01-50_658-1.jpg
Oil on top of coolant in head.
2013-05-04_21-01-50_658-1.jpg (30.47 KiB) Viewed 701 times
2013-05-04_20-17-42_18-1.jpg
Bolt on far left snapped off even w/top of head
2013-05-04_20-17-42_18-1.jpg (33.08 KiB) Viewed 701 times
Last edited by dbboss on Mon May 06, 2013 8:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Potential runner fast becoming parts tractor

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sun May 05, 2013 3:17 pm

Don't get too upset about oil in the coolant until you find a problem causing it. More than one person has put oil in the radiator to lubricate the water pump that isn't there.
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Re: Potential runner fast becoming parts tractor

Postby dbboss » Sun May 05, 2013 3:29 pm

I just hope the block isn't cracked. The repair on the head looks ok. I think the corrosion on the bolt just grabbed the soft brass causing it to bind down and break the bolt. It turned probably 3/4 of a turn before it grabbed and broke. I'm just worried about a possible crack in the block. One thing I did notice also was that several of the head bolts weren't very tight. On 2 of them, I bet you could've taken them off with a nut driver! Really wasn't wanting to pull the head until I knew it would run, but the intake and valves are so dirty/rusted I didn't want to pull all of that into the engine. Plus I knew that with the valves sticking it'd be harder to get running. Had intakes on 3&4 and exhaust on #2 sticking.
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Re: Potential runner fast becoming parts tractor'upda

Postby dbboss » Mon May 06, 2013 8:27 pm

Ok. Just got the head bolt drilled out. Just like I figured. Seized to the head in the area of the repair, not to the block. Some pitting in a couple of cylinders, but looks worse than it is. No visible cracks anywhere. Please look at included pics and give me your opinions of what you are seeing and think about it.
Attachments
2013-05-06_19-12-56_306-1-1.jpg
Worst of pitting. Looks bad, but fairly smooth.
2013-05-06_19-12-56_306-1-1.jpg (47.62 KiB) Viewed 502 times
2013-05-06_19-13-13_733-1-1.jpg
Top of block
2013-05-06_19-13-13_733-1-1.jpg (79.9 KiB) Viewed 502 times
2013-05-06_19-24-59_689-1-1.jpg
Bottom of head
2013-05-06_19-24-59_689-1-1.jpg (82.96 KiB) Viewed 502 times
2013-05-06_19-26-50_205-1-1.jpg
Top of head gasket
2013-05-06_19-26-50_205-1-1.jpg (60.82 KiB) Viewed 502 times
2013-05-06_19-27-01_322-1-1.jpg
Bottom of head gasket
2013-05-06_19-27-01_322-1-1.jpg (70.85 KiB) Viewed 502 times
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Re: Potential runner fast becoming parts tractor**updated**

Postby Eugene » Mon May 06, 2013 8:56 pm

Finish stripping the engine down. Measure and record everything.

Make a couple passes with hone through each cylinder to see how well they clean up.

Head gasket. Doesn't look like the head was properly torqued down. Check and chase the head bolt threads in the block.
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Re: Potential runner fast becoming parts tractor**updated**

Postby dbboss » Mon May 06, 2013 8:57 pm

I was limited on time and what I need to clean it up good. Need some steel wool to get a better look. Sprayed w/carb cleaner after scraping everything down. Got a flashlight and checked block, head and cylinder walls for cracks. Didn't see any yet. I know I need to check head & block to see if everything is flat or needs to be machined down. I would have thought the head gasket would've shown bright metal on the mating surfaces on both sides if it was making a good seal. As you can see, this one doesn't look blown or anything, but definitely looks like things weren't torqued correctly and/or the mating surfaces are warped. Couple of the valves look pretty bad from corrosion, but I'll have to pull them to get a better look. What all else should I be looking for and checking since the head is off?
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Re: Potential runner fast becoming parts tractor**updated**

Postby Eugene » Mon May 06, 2013 9:12 pm

Basically, completely disassemble the engine. Find out what you really have.

Actually, I would pull the engine. Also check pressure plate, throwout bearing, clutch disk, etc..
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Re: Potential runner fast becoming parts tractor**updated**

Postby dbboss » Mon May 06, 2013 10:16 pm

I hear ya, Eugene. If my funds allowed it, I'd already be breaking it on down. 9 month old, 4 year old, wife stays home with them and doesn't work, can't sink too much into it.
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Re: Potential runner fast becoming parts tractor**updated**

Postby Dances With Cubs » Mon May 06, 2013 10:34 pm

My guess is the repair was for a simple crack and the heat likely warped the head. And if the bolt was welded to the head where it was repaired it was done while attached to the engine. I would simply find a good used head, or a new one if funds allow. Hone cylinders and replace head gasket, and reassemble. Likely the block is fine but I would at least pull the pan and inspect crank and connecting rods for obvious signs of play. May not be as bad as it seems.
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Re: Potential runner fast becoming parts tractor**updated**

Postby dbboss » Tue May 07, 2013 1:06 am

I think the repair was done with the bolt out and redrilled for the bolt to fit. For some reason the bolt galled on the brass repair. Corrosion maybe. As I said, she keeps throwing surprises. Bad ones. This is the latest one. Big Ol repair behind the lower radiator hose. Remembered reading the other day about this being a trouble spot as I was covering everything up tonight. Lo and behold, there it is! Will this help explain the oil in the water? I noticed the water inlet on the motor was well above the repair. Or does this just weaken the block and cause higher potential for failure later?
Attachments
2013-05-06_23-09-34_389-1.jpg
Braze repair at front right of block behind radiator hose.
2013-05-06_23-09-34_389-1.jpg (28.14 KiB) Viewed 417 times
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Re: Potential runner fast becoming parts tractor**updated**

Postby Hengy » Tue May 07, 2013 10:29 am

This is a common place for the blocks to crack. It looks as though this has been this way for quite a while. Even though it is not as strong as the original metal, it can still be used. I would recommend an engine brace to take any future stress off of that area. It may leak oil there, but I don't think it would leak it in the antifreeze at that spot.

Common wisdom would be to NOT put a bunch of money into rebuilding this block, but there is no harm in getting it running to see how it goes. Many MANY Cubs are out there running with this repair.

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