removing front cover

Farmall Cub Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your Cub related issues.

Moderator: Team Cub

Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.

removing front cover

Postby herbiegrizz » Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:42 am

If I can buy this cub with no oil pressure,will I have to remove the engine to see if the plug behind the cam is missing. Can just the front be removed along with radiator to get to front plate..Will I be able to see if problem is here..Ive got the guy considering an offer...I tried two gauges without any luck so I guess going into engine is next IF he decided to sell
herbiegrizz
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:27 pm
Zip Code: 38834

Re: removing front cover

Postby Eugene » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:18 am

You will need to remove the bolster, engine front pulley, lower the oil pan, to remove the engine front cover. Should the allen plug under the cam shaft gear be missing, you will need to pull the engine and remove the oil pump to slide the cam shaft forward.

If this were my tractor, I would pull the engine, set on engine stand, disassemble, measure. Basically find out condition and if any thing needs repaired or replaced.

Did you check for missing allen plug under the valve tappet cover

Edit: By the time you have the tractor ready to access the front cover - remove the cover on bottom front of flywheel, 4 or 6 more bolts to unbolt from torque tube and you have the engine pulled.
I have an excuse. CRS.
Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 12131
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: Mo. Linn
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: removing front cover

Postby herbiegrizz » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:16 am

Eugene Yesterday evening I thought I would look again,, I did remove the carb and then the valve cover with the two long bolts..The allen plug was in there at the back closes to clutch end.. I removed this allen plug and also the allen plug behind the hydraulic lines..Took my oil can and shot some oil in like I was going to prime the pump and it immeadiately ran out the allen hole in the valve cover . Put it all back together and spun engine over with oil filter cap off and can see oil immediately gushing into housing. I put filter back in and lid back on and spun it and spun it and no movement of the gauge..This is original gauge..This ga under any air pressure will move needle..Ive already before yesterday removed the pressure relief valve and the spring and cap slides in easy and comes out easy... Guess now its to look into engine..He finally hesitated on giving me a price but I told him he had a pile of scrap metal until he has oil pressure and it runs.
Last edited by herbiegrizz on Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
herbiegrizz
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:27 pm
Zip Code: 38834

Re: removing front cover

Postby jrmartin1964 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:56 am

The oil pressure gauge will not register unless the engine is running. Simply spinning the engine over with the starter will not do it. If oil is flowing into the filter canister, then the oil pump is working - it sits on the back of the engine and has to pull oil up out of the pan. I understand that you don't want to put any great sums of money into this tractor yet, but I would suggest the purchase of a new gauge (a 0-30 or 0-45 lbs. will be sufficient), crank the engine, and then see if the new gauge shows pressure. Even if you ultimately have to go through all the other (remove the front cover, etc.), you will still need a gauge that you know (or can reasonably suspect) works.

Jim
1945 Farmall A
1947 Farmall A
1949 Farmall Cub
1950 John Deere M
jrmartin1964
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:13 pm
Location: Plantersville, MS
Zip Code: 38862
Tractors Owned: :
1945 Farmall A
1947 Farmall A
1949 Farmall Cub
1950 John Deere M

Re: removing front cover

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:06 am

Once it is running, it normally takes 10 to 20 seconds before you see oil pressure, so spinning with the starter will rarely give a reading on the gauge.
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government
to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the
government lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." Patrick Henry
User avatar
John *.?-!.* cub owner
Team Cub Guide
Team Cub Guide
 
Posts: 19104
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:09 pm
Location: Mo, Potosi
Zip Code: 63664
Tractors Owned: 47, 48, 49 cub plus Wagner loader & other attachments. 41 Farmall H.

Re: removing front cover

Postby Eugene » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:39 am

Engine has been previously ran to check for oil pressure.

Considering lack of oil pressure and other problems with this tractor, at this point I would offer the owner just above scrap metal price for the Cub.
I have an excuse. CRS.
Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 12131
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: Mo. Linn
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: removing front cover

Postby jrmartin1964 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:13 pm

Eugene wrote:Engine has been previously ran to check for oil pressure.

Well, we don't really know that for certain, because:
herbiegrizz wrote:they started it and shut it down because no oil pressure..

We don't know if they just started it and saw there was immediately no oil pressure and shut it down, or if they let it run for the time it takes for the oil pressure to build up.
John *.?-!.* cub owner wrote:Once it is running, it normally takes 10 to 20 seconds before you see oil pressure


It could very well be that a tear-down and split are in the cards for this one, but I'd first like to verify that it's truly necessary. Could still just be a faulty gauge. But...
All we know for certain, and only through second hand information, is that the owner told the OP there was no oil pressure when it was cranked and started after a rebuild. No one directly involved in this conversation has yet confirmed this statement by actually running the engine and checking the oil pressure with a reliable gauge. The OP stated that, with the engine spinning, oil flowed (I believe he said it was "gushing") into the oil filter chamber. That tells me the pump has to be working and that, after allowing for the time it takes for the pressure to build up, there should be oil pressure with the engine running. I'm thinking this needs to be positively verified before proceeding further. It seems a small price to pay to invest in an inexpensive, yet reliable, gauge to verify the no-oil-pressure claim before tearing into the engine and splitting the tractor. Perhaps it truly doesn't develop oil pressure, but spending a few dollars for a gauge (which will be necessary anyway) is an inexpensive way to determine for certain that a new set of gaskets is going to be needed.

Jim
1945 Farmall A
1947 Farmall A
1949 Farmall Cub
1950 John Deere M
jrmartin1964
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:13 pm
Location: Plantersville, MS
Zip Code: 38862
Tractors Owned: :
1945 Farmall A
1947 Farmall A
1949 Farmall Cub
1950 John Deere M

Re: removing front cover

Postby Rudi » Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:35 pm

Herbie:

Has he replied to your offer :?:
Confusion breeds Discussion which breeds Knowledge which breeds Confidence which breeds Friendship

User avatar
Rudi
Team Cub
Team Cub
 
Posts: 28425
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 8:37 pm
Location: NB Dieppe, Canada
Zip Code: E1A7J3
eBay ID: ve9rhs
Skype Name: R.H. "Rudi" Saueracker, SSM
Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub "Granny"
1948 Cub "Ellie-Mae"
1951 Cub "Jethro"
Dad's Putt-Putt
IH 129 CC
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y
Twitter ID: Rudi Saueracker, SSM

Re: removing front cover

Postby Boss Hog » Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:48 pm

I see a lot of posts on offering just above scrap price for cubs , I guess I look at things differently, I for one would get POed if I was offered scrap price for a cub. I would also be interested in knowing how many members are selling cubs for scrap price. I dont pay more than they are worth, but I do like to pay what they are worth to me. If you think they are only worth scrap price why buy it in the first place!
Boss
IN GOD WE TRUST
All others pay cash
Boss Hog
Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely byJohn Emerich Edward Dalberg

8th Va fest link viewtopic.php?f=8&t=81392&p=657790#p657790
User avatar
Boss Hog
Cub Pro
Cub Pro
 
Posts: 9662
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:35 pm
Location: VA. Randolph
Zip Code: 23962
eBay ID: dmb2613
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: removing front cover

Postby Eugene » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:02 pm

Boss Hog wrote:I for one would get POed if I was offered scrap price for a cub.
Following, a previous post/topic, down on the page describing the some problems with the tractor and owner's veracity.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79669&p=637719#p637719

So far Herbie has quite a bit of time invested and probably little prospects in getting some if any money back.

herbiegrizz wrote:This is original gauge..This gauge under any air pressure will move needle.
If the gauge needle moves under air pressure - it will move under oil pressure. Accuracy questionable - but the current gauge will register oil pressure.
I have an excuse. CRS.
Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 12131
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: Mo. Linn
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: removing front cover

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:34 pm

He has primed it since the posted test, so it may be ready to go now.
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government
to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the
government lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." Patrick Henry
User avatar
John *.?-!.* cub owner
Team Cub Guide
Team Cub Guide
 
Posts: 19104
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:09 pm
Location: Mo, Potosi
Zip Code: 63664
Tractors Owned: 47, 48, 49 cub plus Wagner loader & other attachments. 41 Farmall H.

Re: removing front cover

Postby herbiegrizz » Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:38 am

Ok The tractor was started after priming pump and checking relief valve and seeing oil coming into oil filler canister,,This was with a new gauge that The guy bought after not seeing any oil pressure..This ga registers 75 lbs.. Now I don't think they had oil pump primed when they started engine 2 years ago..New ga installed 2 years ago. The Last work I did on tractor was stated above, Checked oil at all locations on outside of block and Put original oil pressure ga back in..Ive only spun it over without plugs and that's when I saw the oil really coming into canister..The tractor HAS not been started since old ga was put on..
Im not trying to buy the tractor for scrap price...The guy told me last Sunday when he brought the original ga by that He couldn't get his money back for tractor..He stated Last Sunday that he had 1800 in tractor and 750 in rebuild..Yep from original post its went up in price 200 dollars. He has to have a rotor button before it can be started,, I only offered to buy tractor to keep it going from scrap yard..I told him all he had was scrap until he can hear it run with oil pressure.
AT PRESENT time I know it has to have a rotor button, The hydraulic fluid is low and tractor had over two quarts of fluid in crankcase beyond the full mark..Tranny was full of water and oil that was milky white...Clutch is not adjusted right..Doesnt engage easily. Only has a mowing deck and its completely rusted out.. Now is it worth 2500 dollars I think Not. Right rear seal leaks onto wheel. Battery is dead Yet he has no money to fix..I just parked it to let it sit so He can decide what He will do
herbiegrizz
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:27 pm
Zip Code: 38834

Re: removing front cover

Postby Rudi » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:18 pm

herbiegrizz wrote:AT PRESENT time I know it has to have a rotor button, The hydraulic fluid is low and tractor had over two quarts of fluid in crankcase beyond the full mark..Tranny was full of water and oil that was milky white...Clutch is not adjusted right..Doesn't engage easily. Only has a mowing deck and its completely rusted out.. Now is it worth 2500 dollars I think Not. Right rear seal leaks onto wheel. Battery is dead Yet he has no money to fix..I just parked it to let it sit so He can decide what He will do


Herbie:

To my mind this is what you need to take into consideration when figuring the price of that Cub.

  1. Needs a Rotor Button. ok .. J-4 Rotor Button, 351692R91 - $58.60
  2. Needs the Hydraulic Pump Rebuilt - ok - pump gasket kit, 355208R91 - $27.88. If the drive gear washer, key and jam nut are needed that will be an extra - $28.00 give or take
  3. Needs an Oil Change and an Oil Filter - ok - oil filter kit - $9.31, and SAE 30wt Oil - anywhere from $15.00 - $30.00 depending on brand.
  4. Needs a Tranny Flush and Refill - $25.00 - $30.00
  5. Needs a Gear Shift Gasket - ok - gear shift lever gasket, 351546R1 - $6.45
  6. Needs to have the clutch fingers adjusted. Hopefully you will not need a TOB or a new clutch.
  7. Needs Right Rear Axel Seal - ok - rear axle oil seal w/retainer, 350822R92 - $37.10
  8. 1 Group 1 6volt Battery - approximately $75.00 for a mid brand unit.
  9. Mower is trash - so 1 mower --- say around $300.00 for a reasonable unit.

These parts etc, only account for $240.00US. I have taken the middle price for those that have a range and not a fixed price. Now add in the Mower brings it up to $540.00 without shipping and handling or taxes if applicable.

He says the Cub cost him $1,600.00 and he has $750.00 in it. So that adds up to $2,350.00 .. ask. In reality if he had to put $750.00 into it, it was a non-runner so it's actual value would be anywhere from $400.00 to $750.00. So median price would be $575.00, add in the $750.00 and it comes up to $1,325.00. Now subtract what it needs to get it running again because now it is a non runner again ..... $1,085.00. Take away the mower and all of a sudden this Cub as is is less than he probably paid for it and less than what he has in it. I usually disregard the implements for the most part. They usually add to the price but in this case take away. So I would be looking at a reasonable offer being between $900.00 and $1,200.00 and no more than the upper limit. Also, I have only included prices for items identified and not for those that may also be required when replacing that which is listed.

Remember now, this is JIMHO and prices may vary according to city/state/PO desires .. :wink: :D

Whew .. time for a nice cup of :coffee:
Confusion breeds Discussion which breeds Knowledge which breeds Confidence which breeds Friendship

User avatar
Rudi
Team Cub
Team Cub
 
Posts: 28425
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 8:37 pm
Location: NB Dieppe, Canada
Zip Code: E1A7J3
eBay ID: ve9rhs
Skype Name: R.H. "Rudi" Saueracker, SSM
Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub "Granny"
1948 Cub "Ellie-Mae"
1951 Cub "Jethro"
Dad's Putt-Putt
IH 129 CC
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y
Twitter ID: Rudi Saueracker, SSM

Re: removing front cover

Postby herbiegrizz » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:04 am

Thanks Rudi All along I was thinking 8/9 hundred dollars That I would give....Maybe he will come back around and take it Would be a good winter project for me. Thanks to all you guys
herbiegrizz
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:27 pm
Zip Code: 38834


Return to Farmall Cub

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests