Leaky touch control hydraulics

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Leaky touch control hydraulics

Postby 169Cub » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:14 pm

Well, I have noticed that my Cub has been marking her territory in the shop. She sat for a long while and I noticed that she finally stopped leaking and once I got her running again the hydraulics were spongy and not smooth. So I figured that is why she stopped leaking and since I know a rebuild is in order I just put some 30 weight in her until the rebuild happens. So I reckon the questions I have are, how long have most of you ran the hydraulics when they were leaking? I read through the rebuild of the touch control and it does not look too hard. I also read on here that it would be wise to buy a new hydraulic pump rather than replace the seal. Is that correct or did I misunderstand? I noticed that it also runs out the hole on the bottom of the transmission housing. That is why I thought that the pump is leaking/bad too.

I also read how to do it on the how portion. I got the kit from Case/IH.
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Re: Leaky touch control hydraulics

Postby tmays » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:41 pm

Fluid coming out of transmission housing isn't hydraulic fluid. Two completely separate units. How long you want to run it like that is up to you. I don't mind topping it off on a working tractor if the leak isn't too bad. Sounds like time to rebuild yours. If you are going to use 30 wt make sure it is non detergent and I would drain old hydraulic fluid out before I put 30 wt in. I do recommend using the hytran in the hydraulics instead of the 30 wt. I would only buy another hydraulic pump if the shaft is worn badly. By all means replace seal and try it.

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Re: Leaky touch control hydraulics

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:59 pm

The fluid leaking from the transmission housing is not hydraulic fluid. Depending on where it is leaking, it is either transmission fluid,or engine oil., from bad seals, or an overfilled transmission. Ed
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Re: Leaky touch control hydraulics

Postby Boss Hog » Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:52 pm

The motor oil will ruin the seals , they will swell up and be a pain in the but to get out.
I rebuilt a 140 T/C last week that had motor oil in it.
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Re: Leaky touch control hydraulics

Postby Rudi » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:13 pm

169Cub wrote:I just put some 30 weight in her until the rebuild happens.


Get that 30wt out of there now... before you do some serious damage. As Boss said,it is going to ruin the seals and probably collapse the sieve. Don't cycle that TC at all. let it drain and then flush it with Hy-Tran. Not cheap but going to be a lot less expensive in parts .. provided it hasn't been damaged yet.

169Cub wrote:I also read on here that it would be wise to buy a new hydraulic pump rather than replace the seal. Is that correct or did I misunderstand?


Replace the seal in the hydraulic pump. The kit is available through TM Tractor .. pump gasket kit, 355208R91 .. $28.00. New pump is going to cost $300 or so. A used pump on :eBay: is going to cost a $100.00 average and you will STILL need to rebuilt it.

169Cub wrote:I noticed that it also runs out the hole on the bottom of the transmission housing. That is why I thought that the pump is leaking/bad too.


As Ed said .. that is not the hydraulics .. mind what he said.
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Re: Leaky touch control hydraulics

Postby Posco » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:03 am

I have a touch control related question. I noticed there is an adjustment screw/stop that controls how far the touch control lever can be manipulated. A 'stop' for a lack of a better word. If I push the lever forward my grader blade will rise. When I pull the lever back, the blade will lower to the ground but there is still a great deal of movement of the lever backward and the hydraulics continue to apply tension on the blade though the blade made contact. I can see the arms continue to move though the blade is tight against the ground. Excess and unneeded strain on the unit?

I loosened the stop and moved it ahead preventing the touch control lever from applying any more pressure once the blade comes into contact with the ground.
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Re: Leaky touch control hydraulics

Postby Rudi » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:39 am

And that is exactly what you are supposed to do. Find out where on the quadrant the stops need to be, set em and leave em. :D
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Re: Leaky touch control hydraulics

Postby Posco » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:48 am

Rudi wrote:And that is exactly what you are supposed to do. Find out where on the quadrant the stops need to be, set em and leave em. :D


Thanks for the confirmation, Rudi.
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Re: Leaky touch control hydraulics

Postby 169Cub » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:43 pm

Ok, thank you guys for the information. I read through a Farmall Cub manual, and I thought that it said that 30 wt oil can be used. Obviously, my CRS kicked in. :x It was too late, I ran the Cub yesterday for about 2 hours messing around with the sickle that I have mounted incorrectly thanks to another link I read last night on here about the 22 Mower. Once again, the experts on this site proved to be outstanding. So instead of messing around with it and since I already had the rebuild kit, I took her apart today with my lovely daughter for some "bonding time". We had fun and talked about all sorts of stuff. She is a great daughter and God has blessed me with her and my other blessings, I mean daughters... So since everyone on here, including me, loves the gratuitous pictures. Here they are for your enjoyment/considerations and thoughts.
Image
Image
Here are all the pieces safely setting on the workbench. The hood is setting on some chairs I have.
Image
The touch control before I cleaned her.
Image
This is the stand that I will be rebuilding her on. The stand was cleaned and wiped down to ensure it is as clean as possible. Now I have to dust off all those memories of rebuilding hydraulic components for the Navy Aircraft that I used to do. That was a long time ago and I hope that my memory kicks in. I will also be re-reading the how to rebuild the touch control part on this forum and the manual, and I hope that all of you provide some dos and don'ts like you have helped with already. And this picture is of the cleaned unit.
Image
This is the hole on the bottom of the Cub that I was referring to. I have not seen any oil, just what appears to be a yellowish brown fluid, what I thought was hytran. I thought that from what I understood in reading through the forum that the pump has failed and needed replacement. Perhaps, I have mistaken. It is indeed not oil.
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Re: Leaky touch control hydraulics

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:46 pm

Posco wrote:I have a touch control related question. I noticed there is an adjustment screw/stop that controls how far the touch control lever can be manipulated. A 'stop' for a lack of a better word. If I push the lever forward my grader blade will rise. When I pull the lever back, the blade will lower to the ground but there is still a great deal of movement of the lever backward and the hydraulics continue to apply tension on the blade though the blade made contact. I can see the arms continue to move though the blade is tight against the ground. Excess and unneeded strain on the unit?

I loosened the stop and moved it ahead preventing the touch control lever from applying any more pressure once the blade comes into contact with the ground.
if you are referring to the sops mounted on the quadrant by the lever, that is how you are supposed to do it. if you are referring to the stop where the rod attaches under the touch control housing, that is a different procedure.
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Re: Leaky touch control hydraulics

Postby Rudi » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:30 pm

Enjoying the pics... :D Thanks Bonding time with our blessings is a good thing. I have 4 daughters and all 4 of em have been up close and personal with Ellie and Granny on numerous occasions with Dad and it is always an enjoyable time. Best times to remember as we get older and they get older.

169Cub wrote:This is the hole on the bottom of the Cub that I was referring to. I have not seen any oil, just what appears to be a yellowish brown fluid, what I thought was hytran. I thought that from what I understood in reading through the forum that the pump has failed and needed replacement. Perhaps, I have mistaken. It is indeed not oil.


That is the clutch inspection cover that has the wing nut on it. If you take that off you will be able to see the Throw Out Bearing (TOB) and the clutch/clutch fingers. This is where you would adjust the fingers.

The only oil you will find there is from the engine if the rear engine seal is leaking and if the tranny is leaking you might find some 80w gear oil if that is what is in your tranny.

This is not what is meant when referring to a blown hydraulic pump. If the hydraulic pump is leaking the crankcase will be fuller than normal and the oil will feel if not look thinner. What you have taken off is the reservoir not the pump. That is a whole different critter than the pump and the rebuild kit is going to be a bit more pricey. You will need to know which reservoir you have - check the part # that is cast into the reservoir case. Not sure why you would rebuild it. Suggest you sit back for a few minutes and think this out.

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Re: Leaky touch control hydraulics

Postby 169Cub » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:42 pm

Thanks Rudy for the clarification. The reason I pulled the touch control, is because I can see a leak under the piston and under the rockshaft. When I removed the unit there was a significant amount of fluid on the transmission. The front of the touch control was full of old nasty fluid that attracted much dirt and dust. Which is why I went ahead and cleaned it first. The pump on the side of the engine is not leaking, I assumed it was bad because of the fluid under the Cub and I read on here someplace that when the pump fails, it leaks out the bottom hole. I probably got confused or misunderstood what I read. I can't even remember where I saw it right now. Anyway, thank you for clarifying what is going on. The crankcase is not more full, and the oil looks like it should. At least now I don't have to worry about the pump. Can I clean out the hydraulic pump because I have some 30wt oil in there?
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Re: Leaky touch control hydraulics

Postby Rudi » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:56 pm

Well if it was me I would pull the pump and inspect/redo the seals since you are going to do the reservoir. It isn't a big job and there are some how to's on it.

Image



Getting the 30w out is more important. Drain any from the lines as well. .... probably a good idea to take them off and let em leak out. That way it won't be that expensive on the Hy-Tran I hope.
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Re: Leaky touch control hydraulics

Postby Posco » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:44 am

It is the stop up on the lever by the steering wheel, John. Thanks for the heads up.

I've got shop envy after seeing 169Cub's garage. I've got so much accumulation a snake would have a hard time slithering through mine.
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Re: Leaky touch control hydraulics

Postby 169Cub » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:30 am

Getting the 30w out is more important. Drain any from the lines as well. .... probably a good idea to take them off and let em leak out. That way it won't be that expensive on the Hy-Tran I hope


How do those lines come off? I was reading and it looks like they pop off the pump housing. I am going to stop by the Case/IH dealer today for a new pump rebuild... That way it is completed. If I do this right, it should last for another 50 years. Then I can say that I have slowly started a complete restoration. :lol:

Yeah, I have to say that I was thoroughly blessed with an AWESOME shop. Our Father in heaven has indeed opened the floodgates for my family in many ways. It is a 40x60 building with a 20x40 fully enclosed, heated, insulated shop that I am also going to have a smaller man cave in, plus a small woodshop in there. The tractors will have to move out into the shed when larger wood projects are being worked, but none the less, it is awesome. It is far from clean though! I have many hours organizing and hanging peg board, installing extra work benches, etc. And I still have many hours to go. :( It is hard going through things and deciding what to keep and what to "scrap". Anyone need a really nice 60 gallon Craftsman air compressor with some air tools? :lol:
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