My clutch apears bonded together , when I first start it !

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My clutch apears bonded together , when I first start it !

Postby Lee_Petrie » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:48 pm

I don't get a chance or reason to "post" very often , but I figured someone must have an answer to my final problem on my 4 year restoration project ! Yes, a long time, but health issues and interest, put it on the "back burner" !
After sitting outside for 10 years by the PO, with only a "can" over the exhaust on this '48 Cub , (which had a large rust hole in the can) , many problems later , the last issue is that on first "start-up for the day" , in gear, clutch full disengaged , the Cub travels about 3' to 4' , before the clutch becomes "unbonded" , after that scary event, it works fine for the rest of the day ! I adjusted the clutch to gain the "free play" , fully disengaged , no grabbing , the drive train comes to a stop ,when changing gears , ect. ! I did not split the tractor to inspect the clutching surface , it's just so close to be fully operational , what could cause my first start up clutch bonding, could oil on the lining cause the "glue'ing effect" ? Could some "brake cleaner" on the clutch lining help my problems , or just cause more problems on the "throw-out" or pilot bearing ?
Thanks for all of your help and interest in my clutch problems , Lee Petrie , Joliet, IL.
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Re: My clutch apears bonded together , when I first start it

Postby TJG » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:21 pm

Hi,

Get yourself a good strong flashlight and look up the hand hole underneath the tractor. There may be a tool, or bolt or something in the way and catching until it is moved out of the way. Another thought I had was if the bracket that holds the throw out bearing is not "true" it could bind when you first depress the clutch pedal, only to be moved out of the way by the rotation of the clutch.

While you are looking rotate the engine with a hand crank to make sure that one of the release levers (fingers) is not broken or the clip underneath it broken, or way out of adjustment.

Are they new parts, or was there recent clutch work done while you were fixing the rest of the tractor? How you describe the situation is that when the tractor warms up the clutch works fine.

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Re: My clutch apears bonded together , when I first start it

Postby Gary Dotson » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:47 am

Sticking clutch is certainly nothing new, but usually occurs over time and once unstuck will work normally. The first thing I'd do is to give the clutch a good hard workout and see if it will clean itself up. Sticking after sitting for an extended time is usually caused by rust on the flywheel and pressure plate surfaces, which may shine up after some use. Yours may be caused by oily junk on the surfaces, which may burn off with use. The worst case is that you may have to split, to see what you've got.
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Re: My clutch apears bonded together , when I first start it

Postby Lee_Petrie » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:22 am

Hi Todd,
Thanks very much for your suggesions ! Automotive style clutches have been a part of my 70 yrs of tinkering , purchased a "Model A Ford" in 1969 ,which I currently own , a 1957 Cub , for maybe 15 years ago , this problem with the '48 Cub upsets me to no end !
IF I didn't put it in gear , when I first started it , for the day, the clutch bonding is soo strong , I would have no other way to release it ! I DID NOT take the clutch / pressure plate apart prior , it was frozen when I got it , (strapped the clutch pedal in the disengaged , down position, ) then gently viberated the clutch plate with a brass punch , forward , and it became unfrozen !
When it releases ( for the day ) IT IS SMOOTH , NO CHATTERING , NO NOISES , NO grabbing and no unwanted slippage ! I will use a good lite and my HF remote camera , as you suggested , their must be an answer , after what I went through already, it probably is simple ! Unfortunately , just to split the tractor without finding the problem, you end up putting it back together , with the same issues !
Thanks again for your help, Lee Petrie, Joliet, IL.
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Re: My clutch apears bonded together , when I first start it

Postby Eugene » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:31 am

If Gary's suggestions doesn't work, try spraying lubricant on the pilot shaft bushing.
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Re: My clutch apears bonded together , when I first start it

Postby Lee_Petrie » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:49 am

Hi Gary,
Thanks for joining my clutch discussion, NOT doing hard farming with the tractor, it could just make the issues, go on forever ! I did try to "burn-in" the clutch, several times, their appears to be a lot of material left , to the point of getting that "free play" on the disengaged position , very difficult , with out first tighting up the "loose" linkage in the throw-out linkage, but a good 1/2" of the freeplay , now exists !
SO, my question to you, Gary, would using "brake cleaner" on the clutch , cause more problems, with the throw-out & pilot bearings, while cleaning the oil from the clutch plate ?? OR could my strong bonding , be coming from of the pilot bearing ?
Thanks for your suggestions, Lee Petrie, Joliet, IL.
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Re: My clutch apears bonded together , when I first start it

Postby Lee_Petrie » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:07 am

Hi Eugene,
Thanks for joining the group "chat", with your "suggestions" ! I think at one time, years ago ( this is a 4 years restoration project), I did try the pilot bearing lubercation idea , as I remember, their was a change for the better ! WD-40 doesn't last, what brand and product do you suggest, for the project ?? And are you personally against the "brake cleaner" idea ?
This forum is "just great" , we can all put our "2-cents worth" in, and come up with a great answer !
Thanks again , Eugene, Lee Petrie, Joliet, IL.
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Re: My clutch apears bonded together , when I first start it

Postby Rudi » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:57 am

Lee:

WD-40 is not a penetrating oil or lubricant despite what many folks think. WD-40 is a Water Displacement fluid. It actually dries up whatever is then and will cause metal pieces to bind together.

Nut Buster, PB Blaster, Solvo-Rust, Deep Creep are all excellent and affordable penetrating and lubricating spray oils. I would use those before I ever put WD-40 on my Cub except maybe in the Magneto to keep moisture out.
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Re: My clutch apears bonded together , when I first start it

Postby Lee_Petrie » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:34 am

Thanks for joining the "group chat", Rudi ! I'll go down to my local auto supply store today , and see what I can find ! Did you ever use any "brake cleaner" on the clutch linings of your tractors ? The pilot bearing, is probably the cause, for at least some of my "bonding issues" , but it is hard for me to understand how that bearing bonding , can move the Cub forward ( or reverse ) by , up to 3" to 4" with just the spin of the starter, but their is alot of gear reduction in the drive train !!
Thanks again, Rudi, Lee Petrie, Joliet, IL.
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Re: My clutch apears bonded together , when I first start it

Postby Denny Clayton » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:36 am

Eugene wrote:If Gary's suggestions doesn't work, try spraying lubricant on the pilot shaft bushing.

I concur with Eugene. My yellow Lo-Boy will do the same thing and it's problem is the pilot bushing dragging the transmission shaft. It does nothing but sit on the trailer 99% of the time and go to the occasional show or parade. Every once in a while it needs a shot of lubricant.
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Re: My clutch apears bonded together , when I first start it

Postby Lee_Petrie » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:45 am

Hi Denny,
That is exactly my limited usage, of my tractors, just a few farm shows per year , and now with 2 Cubs , that would mean even less "running time" ! What brand and product of oil, do you use on your "pilot bearing" issues !
Thanks for your help, Denny,
Lee Petrie, Joliet, IL.
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Re: My clutch apears bonded together , when I first start it

Postby Eugene » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:59 pm

Lee_Petrie wrote:What brand and product of oil, do you use on your "pilot bearing" issues !
I would visit the auto parts or hardware store and look for a can of light weight spray petroleum based lubricant with straw. Heck, might even find one on the shelf among my other stuff.
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Re: My clutch apears bonded together , when I first start it

Postby Landreo » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:02 pm

This happens to me all the time with my cubs and cub cadets. For me it is just the clutch disc rusting to the plate. I agree with Gary Dotson. I would just slip the clutch a little to clean the disc. I am not sure brake cleaner would help but likely would not hurt if just on the clutch disc. I would be careful about spraying penetrating oil around that area.

WD 40 is oil, penetrating oil, just look at the MSDS.
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Re: My clutch apears bonded together , when I first start it

Postby Rick Spivey » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:54 pm

Just a thought, they sell the white litheum grease in a spray can with a straw, but I would use it very sparingly. Don't need that on the clutch disk surface. Then you could use the rest of the can on door hinges, etc!
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Re: My clutch apears bonded together , when I first start it

Postby Lee_Petrie » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:24 pm

Thanks for the last 3 replied from Landreo,Eugene & Rick,
They all have great merit, I sprayed a "little" Lawson light chain spray oil" on the pilot bushing with an extented straw, late this afternoon ! 2 hours later I tried starting the Cub "IN GEAR", would you believe, I still got about 3' of foward travel with the clutch fully depressed , maybe I should be allowing more time ( run time) to make a judgement call ( I did notice , the V-belt pulley I added to the "right angle PTO unit, seemed to come to a STOP faster, with the clutch depressed ) ! I'll try it again tomorrow , if it still is a problem , maybe I'll try a very little of the "brake cleaner" idea , with all of my great feed-back , from the post , the problem will be resolved !
Thanks again to you all, one way or the other , I will resolve the issue ,
Lee Petrie, Joliet, IL
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