Welding Question

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Welding Question

Postby PVF1799 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:58 am

Gonna throw this out there. I've heard (from Dad) that if you need to weld near a hole in a casting to build a shoulder back up. You can place a piece of Carbon Graphite Rod in the hole and weld all around it. The rod can then be removed, leaving the hole which won't be filled with weld.

I need to do this on the final drive housing were the brake pin has cracked out part of the hole.

This is exactly the correct size.

Thoughts?
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Re: Welding Question

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:02 am

Unless you are a very experienced welder take it to a professional. cast iron requires special heating to prevent cracks. Replacement final housings are not that expensive.
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Re: Welding Question

Postby PVF1799 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:30 am

John *.?-!.* cub owner wrote:Unless you are a very experienced welder take it to a professional. cast iron requires special heating to prevent cracks. Replacement final housings are not that expensive.


Thanks John - I've been telling ol'Dad that - he's old school. I've picked up a final drive for this restoration. Want to fix this one for a spare. We've got some great welding shops in this area - Over the winter I'll look it up.

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Re: Welding Question

Postby ricky racer » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:33 am

I've welded for a lot of years and hate welding Cast Iron. John's right about preheating. You can's just preheat the area you're welding you need to heat the entire casting to keep it from cracking.
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Re: Welding Question

Postby Eugene » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:43 am

If you have a tech school that teaches welding in the area, see if they will take it on as a project.
I have an excuse. CRS.
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Re: Welding Question

Postby Lee_Petrie » Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:16 pm

Hello out their,
I've ended up welding several "cast iron" projects, YES, the carbon rod works great for hole filing , but I find welds done on cast iron or cast iron to steel , are done best with my stick welder, using Stainless steel rods , NOT the older Nickel rods, smoother "melt in qualities " with less per-heating ! IF the weld ever would break , it would be in the middle of the new weld, not at the bonding surfaces with the original metal !
Just my thoughts , Lee Petrie , Joliet, IL
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Re: Welding Question

Postby Landreo » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:54 pm

I use carbon arc rods from McMaster-Carr. Never tried with cast but I assume it would work as well as any cast welding works. Depends on your experience. I typically do not preheat since I do not have an oven large enough but use the short stitch method mentioned on the Miller welding site. So far it has worked well with 99 nickle rods. "worked well" is subjective and so far limited in actual numbers. For a non-critical repair I would not hesitate to weld with a stick welder. I would not depend on my welds if someone could sustain injury if my wleds failed.
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Re: Welding Question

Postby Lee_Petrie » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:30 pm

No comments on my Stainless Steel "stick rod weld " on cast iron or cast iron to steel ( I do use the DC setting ) so I though I would add some pictures of my right generator foot ( as the pictures are shown ) , my friend made the new foot to replace the broken off one, out of steel, and I welded the new steel foot to the cast iron base , "V'ing" first , NO preheating and using a ball-peened hammer on the cool down , to take the stress out ! What you see is the final weld appearrence , NO grind , NO body filler , just a finish coat of black paint, and that was at least 15 years ago ! That MIGHT be a magic fix , for a "broken ear casting " !
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Re: Welding Question

Postby Smokeycub » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:24 pm

Lee, I think your weld looks good. That's the first I've heard of welding with stainless rod on cast iron. Sure looks like it works well.
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Re: Welding Question

Postby ricky racer » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:53 pm

Smokeycub wrote:Lee, I think your weld looks good. That's the first I've heard of welding with stainless rod on cast iron. Sure looks like it works well.


I've welded with both Nickel and Stainless on cast iron as well and other "special" cast iron formulated rods. I too like Stainless for cast iron but still hate to weld it. If you go at it like Ken is where he has a replacement already and the one to be welded is junk already and at worst it's junk when you get done welding, it's worth a shot. However, if it is the only piece that I've got and I have to weld it or scrap it and hunt down another, I have a lot of apprehension about it and I sweat it until it's at ambient temperature.

The best way to preheat the casting is in an oven. Welding charts will tell you what temperature to heat it to. Your wife’s oven probably won't get it there but it may get you sleep time on the couch. :lol: Once up to temp which you check with a temp stick, weld the already prepped area with short welds and peen with a small hammer to stress relieve then weld again repeating the peening process. Do this until the weld is complete and place it back in the hot oven for a bit then turn off the oven, let it cool down overnight and cross your fingers. :roll:

Also, newer cast iron is easier to weld than old cast iron.
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Re: Welding Question

Postby Lee_Petrie » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:01 pm

Hi Ray, Thanks for the "thumbs- up " , I'm not a proffessional welder , but after using that Nickel rod , I checked around for something better, and my welding supply store suggested Stainless Steel electrodes but said their are some Stainless #'s that are better than others !
Someone also suggested a product called "Missile Rod" , I think it was red or red/pink in color , that was giving the same or better results, BUT don't be shocked , VERY HIGH PRICED RODS , for either ! I even weld a "high carbon " crank shaft in my air compresser , with Stainless , it lasted 15 years , before it gave up ! Lee Petrie, Joliet, IL.
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Re: Welding Question

Postby Boss Hog » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:21 pm

The Nickle rods are on the pricy side Too :D
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Re: Welding Question

Postby Lee_Petrie » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:25 pm

Hi Ricky, How about a couple of quick questions, with your Stainless Steel ,welding projects ; 1) reverse or forward polarity ( on the DC setting) & 2) which Stainless Rod numbers were the better ones for welding cast iron ?? Lee Petrie
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Re: Welding Question

Postby ricky racer » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:01 pm

Been a long time since I've welded anything with an stick welder, my welding method of choice now is TIG. However, I did certify in all position unlimited thickness welding with a stick welder. I prefer DC reverse and any of the 300 series stainless rods. Given a choice, I'd still rather not weld old cast iron.

Again, newer cast iron welds much better than old cast iron. I don't know if it's the age or the metallurgy makes the difference. New cast iron really isn't bad to weld and I can do it with high expectations that it will be a good weld. If the cast iron is 40, 50 or 70 years old, it's pretty much a crap shoot and I only weld it as a last resort.
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Re: Welding Question

Postby Smokeycub » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:22 am

Thanks Lee and Ricky for the insights. I've not done much welding on cast iron but what I have done seemed to be more like hot glue than a weld, if you know what I mean. I had a 3 spoke pulley (off the back of my Cub 22 mower drive shaft) that the center broke out of, V'ed it, preheated it, and proceeded to weld it (DC Rev) with a nickel rod. I thought I had the welder amperage pretty hot but it didn't seem to want to burn in real well. I've mowed quite a bit with it since the repair, probably 2 or so acres of weeds and grass, and still going. Just ugly as sin. Next time I think I'll try some stainless rod.
Boss Hog wrote:The Nickle rods are on the pricy side Too
You got that right David! Especially the high nickel content rod.
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