Engine seized? 1950 Cub

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Engine seized? 1950 Cub

Postby marshall » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:54 am

Hi: I'm tractor newbie and bought a 50 cub this weekend. It had been overhauled completely before the sale. I mowed with sickle bar for about an hour and a half and it was running smoothly, but
suddenly, while there was no particular strain on the machine, I heard a belt make a slight whoop and then the engine died. Thought I might be out of gas but that didn't help. All belts checked out (not broken or off wheels).
The engine wouldn't even crank. It would make a clunk and I could see the main shaft turn maybe 1/2 an inch. So I charged the battery and retried this morning.
It began the same way barely turning, but finally after 5 minutes of cranking, the engine came to life. I looked at the oil pressure gauge and it was pinned over to the right
in the red. The engine ran about another 45 seconds to a minute and then started making clacking sounds that got louder for about 10 seconds and then I shut off the engine.
I'm thinking this engine is running without oil getting to it.

The oil tank is full. The oil was supposedly changed just before the sale but after just this bit of mowing it is black.... not what oil looks like in a car after a change and a couple hours of driving.

Anyway, I'm really hoping this is something that can be solved without a massive engine repair project because I'm not tooled up or knowledgeable enough to do it.

Are there things I can check or do to get oil flowing reliably? I don't have manuals, so I don't even know if there is an oil pump that needs replacing or what.

Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: Engine seized? 1950 Cub

Postby Rudi » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:30 am

Marshall:

First, congrats :applause: on acquiring your new to you '50 Cub :D Second, sorry to hear you are having issues so soon. Unfortunately I am not a good enough at mechanics to help. Others with better skills will be along shortly. However, I can do what I do best and that is point to the resources that we have available to our community members. I would strongly recommend that you take a little time and spend it reading the Blue Ribbon Service Manuals - starting with the GSS 1007 - Engine. Suggest you also take some time - set a spell - grab a cuppa :coffee: and read the info at the links below...

Image to Farmallcub.com :big smile: Forum Family. And you have come to the right place for all things Cub related. If you click on the Site Rules, Regulations, & Important Information, it will point you to :arrow: the Welcome Wagon wherein you will find links to many useful sites and topics. One of the most important resources are Owner's Manuals, Parts Catalogs and Service Manuals. The Cub Manual Server is the home of the jpg versions and the PDF Manuals -- well the pdf's of course :wink: Enjoy!.
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Re: Engine seized? 1950 Cub

Postby Eugene » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:05 am

If you had oil pressure on the gauge, oil pump working, engine being lubricated.

Check the radiator fan and generator. See if they are not frozen up.
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Re: Engine seized? 1950 Cub

Postby Xperimental » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:57 am

marshall wrote: I looked at the oil pressure gauge and it was pinned over to the right
in the red.


You indicate it is pinned all the way to the right and in the red. However, on the IH pressure gauges I am familiar with, the red area is over to the left and indicates low or no oil pressure. The original oil pressure gauges on 1950 Cub also had a red area over to the left to indicate where the oil pressure is too low for safe operation.
Last edited by Xperimental on Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Engine seized? 1950 Cub

Postby challenger » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:11 am

Your fan hub has seized. Check the manual and oil the hub per the instructions.
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Re: Engine seized? 1950 Cub

Postby Eugene » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:04 pm

marshall wrote:I bought a 50 cub this weekend. It had been overhauled completely before the sale.
Most 1950 Cubs have had their engines over hauled one or more times. Did the previous owner say how long before the sale, the engine had been overhauled?
The oil was supposedly changed just before the sale but after just this bit of mowing it is black.
Once you have figured out the problem with the engine. Suggest a complete fluid change - promptly.

Operators and service manuals are available free. Top of page under manuals.

The bolt to loosen the fan belt is on the front, radiator, side. Do not attempt to loosen the bolt/nut from the back side, you will break off the fan bracket ears.
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Re: Engine seized? 1950 Cub

Postby bythepond88 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:16 pm

I agree with Eugene that the fan hub is a likely culprit. To supplement what he said about not turning the nut on the back of the hub, I actually put a wrench to keep it from turning, rather than relying on the "ears" to hold it in place. When I took mine off the first time, the nut was frozen on the shaft, and, even though I was turning from the front, it turned the nut sufficiently to break one of the ears.

marshall wrote:Are there things I can check or do to get oil flowing reliably? I don't have manuals, so I don't even know if there is an oil pump that needs replacing or what.


To see if oil is flowing properly, remove the oil filter cap and the filter. There is a hole near the top on the block side of the filter housing. With the ignition off, crank the engine over a couple of times. If oil is circulating, it will come out of this hole. If oil does not come out of the hole, the oil pump lost prime. To prime the pump, squirt oil back down that hole, turn the motor about 1/3 revolution, add some more oil, turn another 1/3 and add a bit more. Then crank to see if the pump is primed.

However, if the pump has lost prime, then priming is probably too little to late at this point.
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Re: Engine seized? 1950 Cub

Postby marshall » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:49 pm

OK. Thanks, people. Here's some clarifications:

Oil pressure gauge had red paint splashed on it. Needle was pinned to the right when running but the true red area is only on the left.
I pushed on the fan a bit to see if it would rotate freely. There's a belt to it so its a bit difficult but it does move in both directions with some squeaky sound (perhaps it does need lube but the fan is not frozen). So does
this say anything about the diagnosis of: "Fan hub is seized" or what that be confirmed/refuted by some other thing I could check?

The person who sold me the Cub told me it was just overhauled in the days prior to his listing on craigslist (here's the listing http://hartford.craigslist.org/grd/4065812938.html ) . Though the battery was pretty dead even though reasonably new (2012 date on it) so maybe this tractor had some work and then sat around. I know the seller never used it. He inherited it from a father who died and then gave it to a mechanic to tune up so that it could be sold without "problems".

So they probably never worked the machine like I did to reveal this issue. Its too bad I drove nearly 2 hours to get the machine or I'd drive it back and ask him to fix it. But it feels like its my problem now and I'm guessing that owning one of these tractors means a fair amount of repairing it on a frequent basis.... I just hope that it isn't toast. WIth a full tank of oil and pressure gauge saying I have circulation it does seem pretty sucky that the engine could seize with no indication that something is going wrong other than locking up.

I'll gather some more info tomorrow in the light and see if there is truly oil circ at the filter and then see about the fan hub.
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Re: Engine seized? 1950 Cub

Postby Barnyard » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:58 pm

marshall wrote:The person who sold me the Cub told me it was just overhauled in the days prior to his listing

I don't know what the seller considers "overhauled", but his ad says "newly rebuilt magneto,new tune-up". That leads me to believe the only thing overhauled was the magneto. It sounds like the engine only got points and plugs and no oil change.
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Re: Engine seized? 1950 Cub

Postby bob in CT » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:38 pm

IF you are up for it, your tractor could get one intensive shakedown at Cecils just over the border off the Pike in New York on Columbus Day weekend. Could be 30 pairs of hands there when we all meet for our Cub Fest.
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Re: Engine seized? 1950 Cub

Postby Rudi » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:49 pm

Marshall:

marshall wrote:But it feels like its my problem now and I'm guessing that owning one of these tractors means a fair amount of repairing it on a frequent basis.... I just hope that it isn't toast.


That isn't the case at all. Most of our Cubs are pretty reliable, require very little in major maintenance and usually just requires a good oil change, plugs, points and condensers when needed and that is about it. I have had Ellie-Mae almost 12 years and I know that I haven't spent a lot of money on her aside from a head gasket or two ... (learning curve for me) ..

What we will need to help you is to understand exactly what is happening. Do not start your Cub until we figure it out. These engines are not that difficult and as long as you can turn the engine over, I would think that there is probably no major damage at the moment. Let's keep it that way.

The GSS-1013 Engine Lubrication System gives a pretty good look at the lubrication system in the C-60. Should be a good read.

Make sure of course that the Cub is in neutral. Always shake hands with your shifter - if it is in neutral it will move sideways/front to back - if it is in gear it won't move. Get in the habit of shaking hands with the shifter.. a real good practice to get into.

Grab a hand crank and turn the engine over. It should turn over without a whole lot of exertion. Good place to start. If it turns over then you know it isn't seized.

And I would echo Bob's comment about Cecil's next month. A whole bunch of us will be there and whatever is ailing your Cub can be taken care of more than likely.



1947 Farmall Cub tractor w/sickle bar,newly rebuilt magneto,new tune-up,ag tires,very clean tractor, appraised at $3,200., will take $2,200.b.o.


I am a little curious as to who the appraiser was though. I would think that was a little
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Re: Engine seized? 1950 Cub

Postby bob in CT » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:53 pm

I think the seller appraised it. :?
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Re: Engine seized? 1950 Cub

Postby Eugene » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:56 pm

Loosen the generator and fan. Rotate both by hand. Trying to eliminate the inexpensive stuff.

Then with hand crank, tractor out of gear, rotate the engine over. Should easily hand crank.
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Re: Engine seized? 1950 Cub

Postby Boss Hog » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:08 pm

bob in CT wrote:I think the seller appraised it. :?

Yep I agree :oops:
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Re: Engine seized? 1950 Cub

Postby pickerandsinger » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:14 am

You need to back up, take a deep breath and relax....First and most important, bring it to Cecil's cubfest as others have mentioned....You'll resolve all your mechanical issues....Rudi Has all available Manuals, you'll ever need right here on the forum...Just click manuals on the top right.. Whatever the PO (previous owner) did, knew or didn't know is immaterial at this point...Unless you plan on chasing him down and getting your money back, forget about it....Youre going to have to learn to work on your Cub, you've got a slew of guys offering their help, sounds pretty simple to me and fun :{_}: ....Welcome to the forum....Dave
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