Quick PTO Question

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Re: Quick PTO Question

Postby Hengy » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:33 am

Do you have something to support the tractor at both ends? One thing to consider is the orientation of the tractor in your shop. Remember that the shaft sticks out of the transmission around three feet, and the torque tube is about 3 feet long, so you need at least 6 feet of moving space for the halves to come apart completely. Taking it apart is much easier than getting it together again. You are going to want an assistant for that part for SURE. Don't press the clutch pedal while you have it apart as the clutch disk will slip out of alignment and be a bear to put back together again. Having some kind of stand for the front half will help.

Good luck and post pics of what the retainer looks like when you get into it. As others have said, your splines on the rear of the main shaft look pretty worn. Do you have a replacement to put in there "while you are at it?"

Just some suggestions!
Mike (Happy as a Lark in Allison Park, PA)
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Re: Quick PTO Question

Postby J Dubya » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:42 am

Ok good deal and thanks for the tips guys. At the moment I do not have a stand made for the front but have plenty of cribbing to get it supported. I have already made a stand for the back so will mount some casters on that so I can pull everything backwards. Great advice on the 3 feet of the shaft to deal with, I do have enough room but if I would do it as it currently sits it would be tight so will be sure to move it forward!

I do not have a new shaft yet. I was going to see if a machine shop could fix my current one first. I did look on TM and a new shaft is not cheap, so will see if can fix first then if not I will have to bite the bullet.

The cub is sitting in my wife's side of the garage so my timeframe to get this fixed is somewhat limited before I start really hearing about it!

I will be sure to snap a bunch of pictures as that may help some others out there with this same issue.
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Re: Quick PTO Question

Postby okiecub51 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:28 am

I would love to see pictures of how you fix this! I have the exact same problem with my cub, I haven't had the time to start on it yet. I think one of the previous owners put the retainer in backwards then when the shaft moved he tried to modify the collar. That rounded off the splines on the input shaft, he was using a bunji strap to hold the PTO lever back! :censored: when I split my cub I plan to take the shaft to a machine shop to see if they can fix it if not, I'll have to save up to buy a new one :(
I hope all goes well with your split and I'll be curious to see how you do it. Maybe when I start on mine I can refer back to your post if I get stuck on something :D :thanx:
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Re: Quick PTO Question

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:14 am

We replaced the transmission shaft on one of my cubs at the MidMO cubfest in May, and I thought there was a write up and pictures on the forum but cannot find it.
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Re: Quick PTO Question

Postby J Dubya » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:09 am

Update: Well I did not get near the amount time to work on the cub this weekend as I had hoped to. It took me quite a while to get the bolts out of the deck, seat mount and for the old battery box that had rusted off many years ago all the bolts were rounded off and had to end up cutting the heads off 2 of them. Got the torch out for the bigger ones and was able to get those out after some heavy convincing. Hoping to get all the supports set up tonight to be ready for the split.

I am planning to take the main shaft in to machine shop to see if they can fix the splines. I was also thinking of having the collar machined & modified like gusbratz did as well just to ensure proper engagement once I get this all put back together. Is there any specific reason why they would make the collar the way they did when it could have been machined this way from the start to use as much collar surface area as possible?

OKIE, I will be sure to get some good pictures for you and let you know what I find out so that might help you find a solution for your issues and all those who are having similar problems.

Have a look at the bolts I was dealing with, sorry for the bad quality.
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Re: Quick PTO Question

Postby okiecub51 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:56 pm

Some pics would be great J. I unhooked my c2 belly mower today, I plan to make some splitting stands this weekend! My uncle has offered to help me, he's a mechanic, but neither one of us has ever split a tractor! Should be interesting.
Thanks J
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Re: Quick PTO Question

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:24 pm

jdubya, next time you encounter a problem like that, try the Sears Bolt Out (also under the name of Irwin in many auto parts and hardware stores). they will also work on just the stud if head is snapped off, so long as there is enough of it showing.
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Re: Quick PTO Question

Postby J Dubya » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:36 am

Okie, Sounds like you may beat me to the punch on this project. If you have any tips please be sure to let us all know!
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Re: Quick PTO Question

Postby okiecub51 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:05 pm

Well, I haven't even started yet! I plan to pull it into the garage and start this weekend :D I'll post pics as I go!
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Re: Quick PTO Question

Postby hurleyjd » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:29 pm

Looks like a new shaft from TM is $123.50. I doubt if I could get a machine to build up and cut new splines for less than that.
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Re: Quick PTO Question

Postby J Dubya » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:40 am

Update:

FINALLY had time to spend an hour with the cub Saturday and got it split so I can get to the bottom of my issue. Split went fine and much quicker and easier than I had anticipated. Looks like my retainer was in correct and there was no movement in the main shaft. Bearing in the front seemed to be ok and sitting correct. I even turned the retainer around and re-istalled the main shaft and there was a bunch of movement that way so that helped confirm it was definitely in correct when I pulled it apart. So now I am thinking my problem is something twith the PTO shaft and a retainer incorrectly installed which is not letting the PTO shaft reach the main shaft as it should. Any of the cub experts have any advice on my next move?

If you look back in this post you can see the PTO end of the main shaft has some worn splines. I sure hate to drop $125+ on a new main shaft but do you all think best just to order a new one since I now have it apart?

Planning to order all new guts for the PTO to get that rebuilt.

Hoping to get a parts list together today and order, so any input is greatly appreciated!

Here are some pics.
Attachments
tranny retainer 2.jpg
tranny retainer 2.jpg (96.85 KiB) Viewed 128 times
Tranny retainer.jpg
Tranny retainer.jpg (104.11 KiB) Viewed 128 times
cub rear split.jpg
cub rear split.jpg (136.68 KiB) Viewed 128 times
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Re: Quick PTO Question

Postby Dale Finch » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:17 am

Just a suggestion if you aren't already planning it...go ahead and replace that front transmission seal while you have it apart. As you know now, it's a pain.

As for the PTO shaft, I had the PTO shaft bearing (which I replaced while apart) that is STAKED in place (rather than the clip) and the stakes were worn such that they allowed the PTO shaft to move aft and disconnect from the PTO collar.

Oh, and that seal and bearing were available from my local NAPA store. Don't be surprised by the thinner appearance of those new seals.

Good luck!
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Re: Quick PTO Question

Postby okiecub51 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:32 pm

Glad to see you making progress J. I haven't even got to start on mine yet, our heater went out in our house so there went all my extra cash! Maybe after new years. I will be mowing with it when spring gets here.
I tried to upload a pic of my shaft but it wouldn't do it it said the file was too big. It looks pretty bad, its worse than yours!
Thanks for the pics you posted I'm going to look at them when I do mine.keep us updated on how it goes and also where you get your parts. Thanks.....okie!
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Re: Quick PTO Question

Postby J Dubya » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:25 pm

Just got all my parts in the mail when I went home for lunch. Got a buddy doing some repair on the main shaft and planning to replace bearing and rebuild the PTO hoping that helps. Probably will not be able to determine if this fixes it as will not need to mow again until the spring. not so sure I want to hassle with re mounting the mower just to have to take it off and put on the front blade.
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Re: Quick PTO Question

Postby J Dubya » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:23 am

Another Update:

Got the new front transmission shaft bearing and seal replace and the tractor back together. It was not near as difficult to get back together as I thought it would be. Just made sure I was lined up good and did not force anything. It was a little tricky getting the shaft through the clutch release bearing but when it hit it I just looked up through the clutch inspection hole to see what correction I needed to make. Had it back together in prob 10-15 min.

Once I got it all back together I started on the PTO rebuild. I did not recognize some of the parts on the PTO assembly from what I have seen on here in other PTO rebuild threads and was thinking this may be part of my issue. Check out the attached pictures of the PTO dissemble and maybe some of you will recognize these parts.

When I had the shaft out and all apart I decided to put it back into the main shaft just to see how it fit and even with it pushed in as far as it would go there was still the huge gap like in my first post. Took some measurements and found out the small portion of the PTO shaft that goes into the pilot bushing was to long! So I ground it down so there was about a 16th of an inch between the 2 shafts and then rebuilt the PTO. One big thing I noticed was that on my original PTO shaft there was no grove to insert the clip ring that holds the PTO bearing onto the shaft? Decided to put it all together and see how it looked and there was no more play at all in the shaft. However when I put the whole assembly back together, now that big gap was back between the PTO shaft and Main shaft!

So thinking that my PTO shaft is either wrong or something is off with it. Since it was to long to fit in that pilot bushing right and there was no collar for the clip ring to hold the bearing in place plus the fact I have some parts in the PTO that I have no idea what the heck they are.

Any thoughts on this one??

Jay
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PTO parts.jpg
PTO parts.jpg (128.72 KiB) Viewed 43 times
PTO 2.jpg
PTO 2.jpg (160.97 KiB) Viewed 43 times
PTO 1.jpg
PTO 1.jpg (192.28 KiB) Viewed 43 times
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