Whitch Alternator?

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Re: Whitch Alternator?

Postby Bus Driver » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:24 am

Regarding the 10SI Delco, it does matter which one chooses. I bought all of mine from the wrecking yard. Now the yards do not get in many vehicles of that vintage since the alternators changed probably 20 years ago. The 10SI from a Chevette will not fit under the hood of a Cub. But it might be useful for some applications. The 15SI has a slightly larger body that might not be noticeable while rummaging through a pile of alternators in semi-darknesss. I think that the 15SI would not work on the Cub.
The 10SI was made for on-road vehicles in ratings from 37 to 63 amperes. Some lower rated 10SI for off-road vehicles may have been made. I do have a 15SI with 70 amp rating on a larger tractor.
For the newbies, the resistor (or diode or indicator lamp) associated with the alternator is to limit the current flow on the exciter terminal that can feed back to the ignition, if the tractor has battery ignition. If the exciter receives it's power from the ignition switch ( the most convenient arrangement), when charging, the exciter supplies enough power to power the ignition. Thus the tractor would keep on running even after the ignition switch is turned off. The devices mentioned above keep the current backfeed to the ignition too small to supply the ignition, but still are adequate for the supply to the exciter.
IH used a resister on their tractors, a 25 ohm wirewound.I often use a 44 ohm 5 watt wirewound as that is the most common value stocked at the local electronics wholesaler. Values up to 53 ohms will work. Have not tested higher resistance.
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Re: Whitch Alternator?

Postby Matt Kirsch » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:21 am

Oh yeah, a 1-wire alternator for sure is simpler.

Cheapest I can get one of those locally is $150. It's an aftermarket "speed" part. Didn't come as stock on any cars that I'm aware of.

Standard 3-wire 10SI's are $40 or so, though we haven't been having the greatest of luck with these... We've gone through 3 of the cheapies on Dad's W-400 so far.
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Re: Whitch Alternator?

Postby pickerandsinger » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:31 am

Just for general info, if you already have an older alternator SI that does not self excite, you can change the regulator to a self excitable regulator and the alternator will be self exciting one wire....Cost very little ...5 or 10 bucks...And Amps is based on the load the alternator is capable of producing...It don't pump out 60 or 80 amps unless it needs it...Check out your amp meter if you're in doubt... :D
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Re: Whitch Alternator?

Postby Gerry Powell » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:12 am

...It don't pump out 60 or 80 amps unless it needs it...

When does it need to?
When all components are operating normally? no
When charging a good battery? no
When you don't have a shorted cable? no
When you don't have a shorted battery cell? no
All I'm saying is to fuse your alternator to protect your equipment when something fails. Look at the following discussions, these things happen and we don't get to choose when, that's when we need a fuse.
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/arc ... -8243.html
http://www.yotatech.com/f116/my-alterna ... off-97932/
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showth ... nyone-Help
http://www.lxforums.com/board/f77/alter ... lp-198247/
http://forum.mazda6club.com/electrical/ ... rning.html
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140-s- ... urned.html
and on and on.
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Re: Whitch Alternator?

Postby RustyKnuckles » Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:17 pm

Well, I thought I was getting un-confused, but the later postings here are re-confusing me.

Is the Napa # is 2134011SW alternator 1-wire or 3-wire? Does it fit under the Cub hood or not?
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Re: Whitch Alternator?

Postby tmays » Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:49 pm

RustyKnuckles wrote:Well, I thought I was getting un-confused, but the later postings here are re-confusing me.

Is the Napa # is 2134011SW alternator 1-wire or 3-wire? Does it fit under the Cub hood or not?


Glad to see I'm not the only one! :-)
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Re: Whitch Alternator?

Postby Into Tractors » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:46 pm

Well, guess I'm going to muddy the waters as I have used Nippondenso units on the few tractors I've converted for my own, as well other folks who bring their tractors to me to either restore or repair.

Granted they aren't a single wire alternator, but they are still simple to wire. I prefer them as I can get them at salvage yards for normally $20-$30 as they are used on a lot of vehicles (both foreign and domestic brands), the salvage folks always test them before I purchase them to ensure they work and do offer a bit of a warranty (90 days normally) and they are small and compact and the fan is internal within the housing, and I sort of think the other alternators with the clunky fan directly behind the pulley looks ugly.
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Re: Whitch Alternator?

Postby Harold R » Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:17 pm

Sometimes you just get that feeling about a particular thread. :?
As I said on page one..."Always use what you're most comfortable with. I'm sure the hitachi is good and affordable. "

As to my last 12v conversion, I used the same Delco 10SI that most everyone else uses for their conversions. I used simple easy to make brackets, however I may could have made the generator brackets work???? I used Bob Melville's 3 wire diagram and I incorporated a voltmeter. (By the way....an automotive style meter usually comes with a bulb for night lighting......it works good for the diode.) I didn't have to alter the hood for it to fit.
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Of all that has seen my '56.....i've not had any comments on the awkward alternator cooling fan or smaller width pulley.
But it bears repeating.....go with what you know and what you're confident in. :coffee:
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Re: Whitch Alternator?

Postby RustyKnuckles » Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:39 pm

"go with what you know and what you're confident in"

Since I don't know anything about these alternators, and have (therefore) little confidence in doing this successfully, I am just hoping to find an utterly unambiguous, "12 Volt Conversion for Dummies" recipe, with all parts listed (with sources!) and all assumptions and "gotchas" discussed.
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Re: Whitch Alternator?

Postby artc » Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:55 pm

I guess i'll toss in my 2 cents. mostly, I use the hitatchi 14231. it's a little smaller than the 10SI and gives me a little more adjustment room, as well as using the existing bracket. wiring is simple, a 1n1004 diode on the L term back to the ign switch. connect the other two. I leave the regulator in place with the wire going nowhere... can't hardly tell it's been changed.

on larger equipment, diesels and such, I use the napa 10SI for more power and easier mounting. sometimes you have to play with pulleys to get things to fit properly.

on a cub, you cannot get 63 amps out of it anyway, it won't turn fast enough. so, no worrys there.

Hitatchi 14231 on Amazon $44 free shipping. works for me.

I like pertronics 12 as well....but that's another discussion.... and voltmeters
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Re: Whitch Alternator?

Postby Tezell » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:05 pm

Yes the NAPA alternator is one wire and yes with the right size belt it fits perfectly under the hood.
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Re: Whitch Alternator?

Postby RustyKnuckles » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:08 pm

artc-

"1n1004 diode on the L term back to the ign switch. connect the other two"

Diode pointed which way? Towards the alternator?

"connect the other two" [wires] To each other? And not to anything else?

And you don't need any other bracketry besides the original for the generator?

Any info appreciated!
Jay Smith

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Next, replacement of old parts (radiator, seals, etc.) + painting.

Plus 3 JD garden tractors (425,318,140)
& two Buick Roadmaster station wagons
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Re: Whitch Alternator?

Postby RustyKnuckles » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:15 pm

Tezell -

" with the right size belt it fits perfectly under the hood"

What size belt is the right size belt?

Thx!
Jay Smith

1953 Cub, acquired fall 2013. Runs much better thanks to tuneup by Art Chester!
Next, replacement of old parts (radiator, seals, etc.) + painting.

Plus 3 JD garden tractors (425,318,140)
& two Buick Roadmaster station wagons
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Re: Whitch Alternator?

Postby Boss Hog » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:36 pm

RustyKnuckles wrote:Tezell -

" with the right size belt it fits perfectly under the hood"

What size belt is the right size belt?

Thx!


It will depend on the pulley on the fan, the early models had a small pulley the later models had a large pulley, the late models take a 22 inch belt I think, and the early ones a 21 inch belt. I think I may have explained this on one of my how to post. Most likely you can use the belt you have now.
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Re: Whitch Alternator?

Postby Gerry Powell » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:42 pm

on a cub, you cannot get 63 amps out of it anyway, it won't turn fast enough. so, no worrys there.


Correct, on a Cub you can't get full rated current output.
But, crank pulley diameter 5"
Alternator pulley diameter 2.6"
Alternator shaft speed at 1600 RPM (speed that drawbar power test was done) is 1600x(5/2.6)=3076 RPM
At this speed, the 10si can deliver 44 amps from the Delco specs
But enough to worry about without a fuse in the charging wire.
Whichever alternator you use, wire in a fuse. All the diagrams I've seen don't use a fuse except the one I posted.
I've never seen a discussion topic so polarized (pun intended)
I guess it's time to quit beatin' a dead horse.
Gerry
Last edited by Gerry Powell on Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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